THE EYES OF THE OVERWORLD; THE DYING EARTH; et al.
THE EYES OF THE OVERWORLD; THE DYING EARTH; et al.
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1.
Moldvay: The Eyes of the
Overworld; Dying Earth; The Dragon Masters, et al.
2.
The
Vance Integral Edition
1. THE EYES OF THE OVERWORLD
2. THE DYING EARTH
3. THE VANCE INTEGRAL EDITION
3.
Cugel
the Clever (14-thief, N)
Iucounu (20-magic-user, NE)
4.
5.
Vance, Jack. THE EYES OF
THE OVERWORLD; THE DYING EARTH;
et
al.
Happy
that you have read a couple of the greats of fantasy and enjoyed them.
As for style, I find that of Jack Vance more compelling than any other
author in the genrs.
Cheers,
Gary
Planet of Adventure is my favorite work of his, if i actually have one.. -- GG
http://www.jackvance.com/vance/covers/english/jpg/eyes.jpg
http://www.jackvance.com/vance/covers/english/jpg/a26h.jpg
Vance, Jack. THE EYES OF
THE OVERWORLD; THE DYING EARTH;
et
al.
<Moldvay:
The Eyes of the Overworld; Dying Earth; The Dragon Masters, et al.>
<The
Vance Integral Edition>
1. THE EYES OF THE OVERWORLD
2. THE DYING EARTH
3. THE VANCE INTEGRAL EDITION
The Dirdir
The Dying Earth RPG +
VANCE:
OMNIBUS:
et
al. could be interpreted as a 'best of' .... hopefully, from the author's
point of view .... if there is still time, maybe interview them about this
...
SITE:
http://www.jackvance.com
MOVIE:
RPG:
http://www.dyingearth.com/
The Jack Vance Treasury ...
http://www.sfbc.com/doc/sfc/GlobalData/GlobalImages/BookJacketsLarge/109510B_lg.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyrdan
Fairblade
I, too, can be counted as
someone led to Jack Vance's writings by your recommendations. As a hat
fan, I certainly appreciated the outlandish haberdashery displayed, in
addition to plenty of other, more literary reasons for appreciation. Though,
I daresay R.E. Howard (in the original form, please) and Tolkien remain
my favorite classic fantasy authors.
I've always enjoyed the fact that gamers are a pretty literate bunch (as are most of my friends, gamer or not), prone to seeking out writers both on and off the beaten path.
While I find the raw power
of Robert E. Howard's swords & sorcery tales compelling, I am not in
the least captivated by the majority of the Exaulted Professor's yarns,
other than The Hobbit, which book I read many times aloud to my
children. I am enthralled with Mr. Vance's character development, exposition,
and dialog.
His "Planet of Adventure"
quatrology is perhaps my favorite of his writings, but I am hard pressed
to choose.
Cheers,
Gary
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anson
Caralya
...
"Mad King Zag"? Could that possibly be a Zagyg reference? I'm very suspicious of it, followed so closely by "Gray." Was the Good Author familiar with Greyhawk way back in 1973?
By the way, I must also thank you for listing Vance as an inspiring fantasy author in the old DMG. I've been reading his stuff ever since, and have managed to collect nearly all of his titles (those Alan Wade mysteries exceed my budget). Hmmm, I suppose he owes you a reader or two.
I suspect the names used
were mere coincidence.
In any event I surely do hope that my sincere regard for the writing of the Good Mr. Vance has added substantially to the audience for his books. Michael moorcock was once generous enough to credit me with doubling his readership. I am always happy to oblige in such cases!
Cheers,
Gary
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anson
Caralya
Gary,
Since Jack Vance has come up as a topic, I always wanted to ask you whether you had any direct contact with him. You were describing the D&D magic system as "Vancian" when Dragon was just a wyrmling, and I could swear that I came across a reference to "Lord Gygax" in one of Vance's "Alastor" novels (although now, of course, it eludes me). Just wondering if he was tipping his hat to you.
And, of course, thanks for the game which has so far provided me with 25 years of entertainment!
Yes. I have indeed corresponded
with the Good author, spoken with him on the telephone, but never met with
him in person.
the reference to "Lord Gygax" is in Trullion, IIRR. Jack enjoys unusual names, and so included mine. I scolded him jestingly for not having me a vicious starmeter.
And of course, welcome
Cheers,
Gary
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mythmere1
Glad you liked the dialogue.
I thought mine ended up more strongly Lyonesse, while Gentlegamer's drew
more from the Dying Earth...
Jack Vance is a most talented
author, and the dialog he creates for his characters is always exceptional,
especially in his more recent SF books.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mythmere1
I must entirely disagree
that you can't create a Vancian character with a class system; I have seen
it done with the character of Morag the Glum and Silent. The difficulty
is alignment, not class. The best the player could quantify his alignment
was "fickle." This alignment designation remained on his character sheet
for years of play.
I'd have to propose that
Vancian alignments would look like this:
Lackadaisically predatory,
with amatory and monetary acquisitiveness.
Amusedly vengeful, with
musical tendencies.
Perrenially vague, with
moments of ardent neutrality
Disagree as you will, i
assert that the limited scope possible with a character in a class-based
system forces the player to assume far too many things not inherant in
the game persona he is acting for. I do agree that alignments as (mis)used
in play are more of a handicap than an aid to roleplay.
Cheers,
Gary
weasel fierce wrote:
..
That, of course begs the insidious question, given that you;ve earlier given Cugel as a good example of Chaotic Evil, where would Elric fall ? Lawfull evil ? True neutral even, as he seems to be in the middle of the cosmic struggle ?
Cheers!
Ivan
Two of my favorite authors,
Vance and Moorcock 
I would rate Elric
as Lawful Evil indeed, as he knows that his sword steals souls, uses it
to keep himslef alive.
Just because he is not solidly
in the camp of LE doesn't mean his actions are Neutral 
Cheers,
Gary
weasel fierce wrote:
Col_Pladoh wrote:
Two of my favorite authors,
Vance and Moorcock
Which is your favourite Vance story ? So far, I;ve read the Dying Earth ones (a few times), the Lyonesse books (which creates a much more compelling story, though they aren;t quite as funny), and a very spaced out scifi yarn, which I forget the title of.
I'd be happy for recommendations
I enjoy all of Vance's writing,
and the Cugel yarns are amongst my favorites.
At the top of my list are
the four Planet of Adventure novels and likely thereafter come the five
Demon Princes ones. Sadly, the novel in which he uses my name is not one
of the most exciting, and I am only a venal lord that want's his money
back.
I wrote to him and complained,
saying if he ever uses Gygax again, make him a vicious Starmeter (pirate).
You have named my favorite moorcock books, Elric and Dorian Hawkmoon.
Cheers,
Gary
Quote:
Originally posted by Archade
Hi Gary,
Firstly, I'd like to thank
you for introducing me to Jack Vance's work ... his use of the english
language and the fantasy store is original, challenging to the reader,
and rich with texture!
You are most welcome. How
I do agree! I can read and re-rad Vance as no other author. His characters
are so clecverly developed with few descriptive passages, their personalities
coming forth from their dialog--and what dialog. I think Keith Lauramer
in his "Retiff" yarns comes close in that regard, albeit he is dealing
with his subjects in a humorous vein, by ald large.
Fid wrote:
"Roald Tush's presentation
was different in both mood and form from either of the previous two, and
culminated with a heart-stopping battle between children in red beetle-coats
and an army of pallid dwarfs prickling with black horns like sea-urchins.
The children had no taste for the battle, but discipline was maintained
by ferocious leaders in garments of black and white leather who strode
back and forth, urging the shrieking cravens forward with whips."
-- Jack Vance (The Magnificent Showboats of the Lower Vissel River, Lune XXIII South, Big Planet)
Fid...
You must stop that or I'll
soon abandon reading posts here in favor of a Jack Vance novel...or else
compose a gormet meal menus for display here 
Cheers,
Gary
I have not seen Steven Erikson's
Malazan
Book of the Fallen, but I'll look for it when I am seeking new fantasy
reading material.
Of late I have been into
historical novels, alternate histories, and murder mysteries more than
fantasy yarns...
and I do want to read again
soon Vance's "Planet of Adventure: quatrology yet another time
Cheers,
Gary
Nikosandros wrote:
That sounds like a great
idea... I've read it only once and I really should read it again...
IIRR I have read it four
times and enjoyed it each time, found more new bits I had overlooked in
earlier readings.
Cheers,
Gary
Darius wrote:
So not a Harry Potter fan
then?
. . . and at least Mussolini
made the trains run on time . . .
I love the films and enjoyed
the only Harry Potter book I read.
That said, I do not find anything in them that is of inspiration for an AD&D or other S&S centered RPG.
If I had a map of the whole
of Hogwarts and environs, I would be tempted to devise an RPG especially
for that setting,
where magic eas based on
use of a special wand and pronunciation of the activating word or words
was/were paramount.
Cheers,
Gary
Darius wrote:
Col_Pladoh wrote:
Ho hum... :roll:
All of those skills rely
upon the use of a wand and proper pronunciation, just as I said. I was
not attempting to outline a rules system for such a game, merely pointing
out the main requirements for successful use of magic in the HP universe.
Interesting. So what would need to be checked is the use of the wand movement and verbal components. Other "skills" would simply give access to spells. So, a skill in defense against the dark arts would allow a certain amount of spells. To successfully use the spell then a check against wand/verbal would be necessary to see if it works.
Is something like this what
came to mind?
Cursorily yes.
As i have not read all the
books with creating an RPG in mind, there is little more I can offer,
We know that compinents
are needed for various potions, and that there are books of spells.
I have no idea as to what enables the familiar, what having one adds to the practitioner, nor how things such as flying brooms, magic mirrors, or enchanted maps are made.
Guideon Thorne is spot on
though, magical skills would have to be studies and learned, jsut as normal
school studies are.
Of course regular subjects
would have to be taught too, or the young students would be ninb-functional
in the larger world.
A percentage rating and
use vcheck as found in the LA game system would work well for magic, while
general skills could be covered as bundles as in that game.
Cheers,
Gary
A pity Ms. Rowling doesn't
know the correct names for various magical practitioners...
although the fortune she
has made using misnomers pretty well belies the necessity for such knowledge 
Cheers,
Gary
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray
Mouser
...
BTW, anyone know if Vance
is still kicking about?
I think he was born in 1916
(or there abouts) but I'd like to know if I should keep hope alive for
further adventures of Cugel, Rhialto and company.
Gray Mouser
Vance's SF is great too,
and I am hopeful that he will still manage to get out a novel slated for
release a couple of years back.
As far as I know Jack is,
thankfully, still with us, but his eyesight is virtually gone <frown>
Regards,
Gary
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray
Mouser
XP for repartee? Heh, the
influence of Jack Vance is quite obvious here, Gary. But I'm not sure of
Cugel would've gotten much for clear thinking
Gray Mouser
But imagine the awards Cugel
would receive for amusing the GM!!!
Heh,
Gary
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agback
Gary, I guess that like
me you will be saddened by the fact that Jack Vance is ill and no longer
writing.
I just wondered what you make of his more recent work. The Lyonesse trilogy, the Cadwal Chronicles, Nightlamp, Lurulu, etc. are very different from the work that went into the inspirtion of D&D, but I like them better than The Dying Earth, Eyes of the Overworld, Cugel's Saga, Rhialto the Marvellous, The Dragon Masters, The Last Castle and so forth.
I enjoy almost all of Jack's
writing very much, and indeed i am most sorry that age has caught up with
him.
I loved Nightlamp,
but the last novel he wrote was not amongst my favorites.
I just finished re-reading
the Demon Princes and Planet of Adventure <big grin>
Cheers,
Gary
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan
P. Mahney
Nightlamp was my first encounter
with Vance's writing, and I enjoyed it. I'm currently reading the Dying
Earth books, and enjoying those even more.
When I first encountered
the writing of Jack Vace I preferred his fantasy. After long acquaintance
with his work I believe that I enjoy his science fiction more. Whatever
the genre, though, I do love reading Jack Vance prose.
Cheers,
Gary
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray
Mouser
Colonel,
I know you're not a big fan
of JRRT, but I do have to recommend The Children of Hurin. Only 259 pages,
and that includes the preface and introduction. It seems to me to be Tolkien's
take on Greek tragedy set in a fantasy milieu. Without dropping any spoilers
I have to just say that I got the last 1/3 (or so) of the book and thought,
"OMG, no way!" Had to go back and reread a bit just to make sure I was
following what was going on correctly 
BTW, the book also fetures
a damn cool talking sword. I'd have to think JRRT was a bit influenced
by Michael Moorecock in this area if the story hadn't been written some
time before the appearance of Stormbringer
As for your other comments,
I have to completely argee with the necessity of rereading Jack Vance on
a fairly regular basis. Rarely have I read an author whose prose I enjoyed
so much. I also hope that the outline of the new Gord novel progresses
apace. And don't forget to put in the appearance of Mordenkainen and Bigby!
(Heh, I know, I know...) 
Gray Mouser
when i am out of reading
material that I am excited about likely I will picj up The Children
of Hurin. After all, I did really enjoy reading The Hobbit.
Perhaps the "singing Sword" wielded by Prince Valiant was a source of inspiration
for JRRT. Anyway, IIRR there are some talking swords in fairy tales. It
has been decades since I read those of Andrew Lang where I think they appear.
As for Vance, how thoroughly I agree. His prose is so exceptional that reading it is a sheer joy. I recall how I lingered over Night Lamp, wishing it were 400 or more pages in length.
Because i have had too much other stuff to do today, I have made no further progress on the detailed outline for the new Gord novel, still only nine chapters set forth. I'll add one or two more today yet...with luck.
Cheerio,
Gary
<trim>
Characters such as Elric,
Shadow Jack, and Kugel are more interesting to me than painfully noble
or pedantically distressed ones. Frankly, I thing the fantasy genre is
for action and adventue, blood and thunder, swords and sorcery, not for
some pot of message 
Cheerio,
Gary
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColonelHardisson
Personally, I'd compare
him to Jack Vance and Lord Dunsany. Those are the only two that immediately
leap to mind. Ursula LeGuin...I don't see the resemblance.
Now you have my attention 
Cheerio,
Gary
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piratecat
I just finished reading
all of Jack Vance's Cugel stories, something I've been meaning to do since
I learned about them in the back of the 1e books in '81. (Yes, yes, it
took me a while.) They're utterly delightful! Thanks, Gary.
- Kevin
Hi Piratecat 
Something I've not mentioned before about the Cugel novel, Eyes of Overworld. I was a young teenager when I first read it, and it so amused me that I gave it to my mother to read, as she sometimes read fantasy and SF works.
She was appauled by the total lack of character evidenced by Cugel, and I suppose she feared that I might be influenced by such amorality and self-indulgence as Vance wrote into his anti-hero. Of course I concurred with her assessment of Cugel, but pointed out that making such a despicable character the protagonist was a stroke of considerable creativity, done with much dark humor, which, coupled with the author's marvelous talent for prose, made the novel a great work in its genre. She was not convinced...
Ciao,
Gary
Quote:
(I've just read the "Dying
Earth" stories for the first time in years, and had forgotten how much
I like Vance. Now it's off to the library for "Planet of Adventure" and
"Demon Princes."
I've just picked up new
copies of the five novels about the "Demon Princes" and the sequel to Ports
of Call, so I expect to be reading and enjoying Vance's work a good bit
this summer. Planet of Adventure is my favorite work of his, if i actually
have one..
Driver wrote:
Gary,
Another "just curious" question. If you were going to assign an AD&D alignment to Cugel the Clever from Jack Vance's "Dying Earth" stories, what would it be? He doesn't seem to *actively* seek to promote evil, or any other ethos for that matter, but then again he's a git, and does some pretty nasty stuff in the stories.
I'd put him as Chaotic Neutral, but I'm curious how you'd rate him.
Cugel is Chaotic evil--note
the small e there. He isn't demonic, but he is malign, never seeking to
do good for anyone but himself, never hesitating to sacrifice anyone in
search of his self interest.
<Grognardia:
add Cugel's Saga, Rhialto
the Marvellous, by Jack Vance>