There were various states on the continent ther were akin to those shown on the later WoG map I did. the Great Kingdom was around NY, and Dyvers was a place, a city-state north of Greyhawk that was larger than a relative Milwaukee compared to Chicago would be.

Downriver around the Gulf of Mexico were the piratical states.

Other than the West Coast being a pliestocene environment, I can't recall much, for all the maps and notes have been lost for decades now.

Cheers,
Gary
 

Quote:
2. Did any of your players' characters ever adventure in the Baklunish states?

Yes, a little. the culture was basically turkish/Persian.

Quote:
3. Another of my favorite settings is Harn. (In fact, I'm moving toward using the Harnic pantheon as my Oeridian deities, and the Tekumel deities for the Suloise).

Harn, as you're probably aware since it was one of the first major published settings, is much more "medieval-simulationist" than is Oerth. This obviously makes it tougher to justify a party-style game with a band of freebooters wandering around with no real place in the medieval social structure, and frankly I've come to the conclusion that Harn is beautiful as an "idea mine" and something to read and enjoy, but not so great for actual gaming. Then again, I tend to game with other chuckleheads who also have trouble doing "deep immersion roleplaying" with a straight face. 

My point is, using medieval culture obviously carries more gaming baggage the deeper one gets into the simulation.

I am quite unfamiliar with Harn.

I concur that as one attempts to develop any sort of smulation, the greater the need for actual data. fortunately, neither AD&D nor the World og Greyhawk demand that.

Quote:
Many of the states in the Flanaess are obvious analogs of medieval Earth cultures. Did you ever really care in your games (original Greyhawk or published) about such things as chivalric weapons laws, sumptuary laws, movement across manorial boundaries, and other "realistic" medieval concerns, or were the medieval cultures just flavor-text backdrops for getting to the adventure?

As always, thanks for taking time out to do this!

Actually the states are very loosely based on actual historical ones so as to enable the DM to have some idea as to what the culture and society in each will be.

Happy to be here exchanging posts with you all!

Cheers,
Gary
 

Yorlum wrote:
Gary,

How did your typical small town in Greyhawk react to the presence of adventurers?

Was it Fictional old-west like, where most people were pretty normal, but used to seeing weapon-toting strangers?

Or semi-medieval, where anybody not a noble bearing weapons and armor were thrown in the clink?

Or something else entirely? On the one hand, I find the idea of a three or four blokes in platemail clanking down the streets and having a beer in a tavern a little silly, but on the other hand, it seems that fighter-types are really penalized if they are stigmatized (and of course they, with the most obvious weapons and armor are going to have the most to lose...).

I wonder how the idea of non-armed persons being the norm became so prevalent in the PRG community. Likely from watching too many samurai flicks...

In the medfieval period almost everyone was armed with whatever thety could manage. True. some societies forbid swords to non-aristocrats, that prohibition disappering as time moved towards what we name the Renaissance.

Anyway, in a fantasy world full of magic and monsters, the unarmed and unprotected by armor would be the first to fall, so I assume that a party of adventurers is a fairly common sight. Local persons are wary of them, as these strangers might want to slay, loot and pillage. Once the strangers prove to be friendly, they are welcomed--for their money. The local ruler might well resent their intrustion. A bit of this is covered in Living the Lejend, coming soon from Troll Lord Games 

Cheers,
Gary

Yorlum wrote:

As an aside, I just figured that it would be hard to relax in that much armor. I do assume that most adults are carrying some weapon, for self-defense if nothing else, but your reply does help bring it into perspective.
 

Metalarmor is unusual wear for walking about in twon unless one is a knightly type or a soldier.

Most ordinary citizens will have a dagger, the better class wear a sword, while commin folks have a staff or walking stick (club).

Cheers,
Gary
 

shadzar wrote:
Gary,

albeit maybe a touchy subject, and you may not wish to even answer this...

whether speculation or actual truth a discussion brewing about greyhawk is in the general discussion forum here. many, i think feel; would love to see it return to you even if you did nothing with it, should "they" drop it and offer the license to someone else.

would greyhawk be able to once again find a place in your home or heart?
if not in (A)D&D, but maybe any new game system you are working on?

TIA,
shadzar

As I have pointed out, the property belongs to WotC, so I have nothing to contribute to it.

Even if they should decide to license it out, anything I might have for the setting would most certainly contradict most of what has been added to it since 1986, so the prospect is not a favorable one.

Cheers,
Gary

Quote:
I think a fairly large number of us would be perfectly content to see you back the timeline up to 579 CY or so (i.e., 1985) and ignore everything that's been published for the setting since your departure from TSR. Of course, such a thing will likely never come to pass, barring any sudden head wounds to Hasbro's board of directors (hmm...  ), but you can't blame us for dreaming!

There were many howls of anguish at the very mention of that possibility on the Greytalk list, so I suspect about half of the audience would be lost in usch case...

Cheerio,
Gary
 
 

Clangador wrote:
Gary, your original Greyhawk campaign. Was it based on a fantasy version of America?
 

Yes indeed it was--easier to use existing outline maps than creating a world setting from scratch. Greyhawk was about where Chicago is, and dyvers was about where Milwaukee is.

The West Coast was isolated by higher mountains than the Rockies, had many volcanoes and Jurassic-like flora and fauna.

Cheers,
Gary
 

Clangador wrote:
So that's why there were so many dinosaurs in the Monster Manual. Did your players ever venture into the Jurassic area?
 

The PCs went there only by accident. Dinosaurs and cave men have little in the way of treasure.
This was learned by Terick, Robliar, and Tenser as they separately returned from China.

Cheers,
Gary
 

Clangador wrote:
So you had a fantasy version of China too? One would think dinosaurs might have parts that could be used for spells and such. No?
 

Yes, there was an Orient, Middle East, Africa, Europe, ane even a South America and Australia.

AS for body parts, one did not have to worry about material components for spell casting in OD&D

Cheers,
Gary
 

Clangador wrote:
So you had a whole fantasy version of earth going on. Why is it that you changed all that when Greyhawk was published?
 

Ho-ho-ho!

I wasn't about to detail a whole bloody world  Besides the amount of effort needed to do that, the time required was not acceptable.
TSR wanted a world setting in a month.
Thus I asked what the largest map size possible for us to produce was, hand-drew two continant-spanning maps, and while Darlene was converting one to a proper version, I wrote the explanatory material for the other, then did the same for the other map.
 

chrisspiller wrote:
Hey Gary, I was wondering something about the crossover between the Gord books and the World of Greyhawk. In the books you have several characters from your campaign show up (Mordenkainen, Tenser, Curly Greenleaf, etc.) but was there ever any reverse crossovers? For example, did your players ever run into Gord and Chert or was Rexfelis the name of the Catlord in your campaign?

Pax,

Chris

Howdy Chris,

As I was playing only semi-regularly then, there wasn't much chance for me to plan out such material, so it never happened...other that Melf's meeting with Keek.

Of course after 1985 I quit most AD&D play and the dropped the World of Greyhawk as my campaign setting.

Cheers,
Gary
 

trollwad wrote:
I think I recall that in one of the Gord books, you had one of the characters note that the Sun revolved around Oerth? Were you making fun of Oerthian worldview or did you really mean for that to be so? For example, the Greyspace spelljammer supplement that later came out assumed the literal interpretation.

Do you remember anything about what you thought of the Oerthly planetary system?
 

Heh,

My concept of Oerth's solar system is rather akin to our own 

Cheers,
Gary
 

howdy!

Most of those PC names are now the property of WotC, so I won't be using them for any stories. Only Gord and non-AD&D associated characters are my IP, along with characters based off of my name such as Zagig/Zagyg and likely Yrag.

Your good wished for my health are most appreciated. So far I can not say I do not feel pretty well most of the time, just that my meds make me tire out rather easily.

Cheerio,
Gary
 

The Welshman wrote:
I didn't realize your legal use of those characters was that limited. I had once heard that you could use any of the names used in the first two Gord books, and that was why some of the names of characters introduced in Books 3+ had different names or spellings (Gigantos for Boccob, etc.). But some of the characters, like Iuz, Iggwilv, Obmi, etc. you could continue to use. But maybe I am wrong about that.
 

Just so... 
 

GutboyBarrelhouse wrote:
Mon Colonel,

I've been meaning to ask: In your City of Hawks novel, is Gord's childhood mentor "Uncle Bru" in fact Gellor? They're both eyepatched, bearded agents of Balance, I notice.

Cheers,
Mark B.
 

A good question...and blamed if I can say for sure.
One of those things that seem clear at the time, that you mean to make a note of somewhere, then forget in the barrage of other stimuli and thoughts that offur.

From what you point out, though, my instinct is to say yes, I was basing the character of Uncle Bru on that of Gellor.
The latter was a sort of guardian of young Gord...

Cheers,
Gary
 

Barrataria wrote:
As always, apologies if this has been asked before. But the other day I was looking through some of the Gord novels for some info, and it occurred to me that I never knew whether Gord and the stories he stars in were based on things that happened in your campaign, whether you ever played a thief named Gord, etc...

Also, what, generally, was the impetus for writing/publishing the novels, originally? Was it supposed to tie in with some other product, to flesh out Greyhawk without publishing a zillion "sourcebooks", or (gasp!) did you just want to write a good story?

Thanks as always!

BB
 

Howdy!

The Gord yarns were completely based off of my imagination, although I did have a scene or two played out to test my assumptions in plotting things.

As for why, it was because I love to write, and I thought I could do some entertaining swords & sorcery for the fans of TSR's games.

Cheers,
Gary
 

chrisspiller wrote:
Col_Pladoh wrote:
The new series was going to have all of the original cast save Bobby and Uni--they had to remain at home, Bobby in school and Uni as his pony.
 

Oh, thank God! Even back as a lad of 11 or 12 or so Bobby and Uni were the bane of my existence when watching an otherwise quite good Saturday morning cartoon! A shame that the second series never made it on air.

Speaking of cartoons, movies, etc., Gary, you ever give any thought to trying to develop a Gord movie? (I don't know if legal issues would allow it, given that you no longer own the IP rights to Greyhawk.) Or even, dare I say, a Mordenkainen project? I know I'd give big bucks to see an onscreen rendering of the big run in with Rob's infamous Iron Golem!

Pax,

Chris

PS
Hope you have a great Memorial Day, Colonel.
 

Howdy Chris,

Thunderation... That aptly describes the state of the weather here. So much for outdoor cooking and parties 

Indeed, not many of the audience over the age of five years or so appreciated Bobby and Uni 

The character of Gord and those aspects of the stories not using Greyhawk material are usable IP, I do believe. Ofcourse no one is beating down our door asking to license the rights... 

Gary
 

Quote:
When you said that no one is beating the door down for the rights does that mean the rumors of TLG reprinting the Gord novels is false?
Also If you have the rights to the Gord Greyhawk could there be a Greyhawk setting done with Gord's GH as opposed to the current incarnation?

No, I was speaking of film producers, not book publishers.
The Trolls are proceeding apace with the hardback versions of the sever Gord books.

The initial two novels were done referring to Greyhawk with the express permission of TSR.
So any reprints will be the same and indicate that permission.

Cheers,
Gary
 

Julian Grimm wrote:
Sorry if this has been asked before but I was wondering if you created Greyhawk during your working on D&D or if it came during your chainmail campaigns. The number of references to troop numbers in the folio seems to hint it may have came from a wargaming background.

Also what was your inspiration for Greyhawk?

For certain the WoG product as published by TSR came into being about two or three months before the date of its prionting and sale.
Brian said that a campaign setting was needed, so after ascertaining the maximum size map sheet we could have printed, I free-handed the land outlines on those two sheeye of apper, used colored pencils to put in terrain features, located the cities, and made up the names for everything.
that took me about 1 week.
Then I went to work on the text while Darlene made prittier maps out of what I had done.
Two or three weeks after the rough maps were done I turned over the text, as there was a big rush to get the product out.

Of course a good deal of my wargaming experience, knowledge of history and geography and use of such in other projects came into play in creating the map and the states on it.

My personal Greyhawk world was a version of earth, but as many palyers were involved in the campaign, I did not want to use that as a base.
the funny thing is that about a mopnth after the printer WoG was out I liked it better than what I was using, so for the most part my campaign play moved to Oerth, Oerik.

Inspiration came from much rading, map making, writing of historical and game materials, and the necessity of producing something that would be lots of fun for everyone.
Imagination and creative thpought then took over... 

Cheers,
Gary
 

uaintjak wrote:
Hello Gary, and welcome back! Hope you're feeling much improved.

On the off chance that you do feel better, I figure I'll make you feel worse by asking you an AD&D question 

I'm rereading your Gord novels and quite enjoying them (much more so than the first time I read them, actually), and I noticed that the cavalier Dierdre is mentioned as being a former cleric (so presumably you envisioned her as a character with two classes). Also, in Sea of Death, Eclavdra is mentioned as having a couple of half-drow minions, cavalier/magic-users.

I wondered if you included such multi-classes in your own game, and if so, how they worked out. I'm toying with the idea myself, but since you speak with the voice of experience, your input would be helpful.
 

Howdy!

While i was pretty liberal in allowing dual- and multi-classed PCs in my campaign, those characters mentioned in the Gord yarns were generally not even NPCs in it.
There are exceptions such as Obmi and Keek, as well as actual PCs such as Curley Greenleaf and Melf.

I played a half-orc cleric-assassin PC for sa brief time in Rob's campaign.

Having such PCs in a campaign shopuld cause no problem if the challenges they encounter are commensurate with their abilities.
Rob saw to it that my half-orc didn't survive very long...quite proper for such a villain that associated with a pack of like scoundrels.

Cheers,
Gary
 

zhowar1 wrote:
Gary, any memorable stories or anecdotes regarding the "Dungeon Hobby Shop Dungeon" that is being auctioned for Ernie this week on Ebay?
 

Heh...

I have no plans to steal my son Ernie's thunder.
That is his creatuon, and the war stories about it are his.

That said, a 10th level magic-user PC of mine, one Slidell of Fax was part of a large party exploring a lower level of Ernie's dungeons when the majority of the young players had their PCs cavorting loudly at the end of a long passage as they were smashing through the wall there.
Slidell withdrew back up the corridorsome 70 feet, entered an empty room there, and seriously contemplated sending a lightning bolt into the racous agglomeration to silence them.
Alex's character retreated with mine, and he urged that Slidell let'em have it.
As I considered that such an act would ruin their enjoyment of the game, I refrained...but avoided playing with that group thereafter 

Ernie has the patience of a saint 

Cheers,
Gary
 

Darius wrote:
Sorry Gary to bother you with AD&D questions, but I am working on completing some of my collection - at least I am not asking about rules 

1. I ran across the World of Greyhawk Folio released in 1980. Is everything that is contained in that also contained in the box set released a few years later?
 

Sure 

1. The original folio presentation of the WoG is replicated and expanded upon in the enlarged boxed edition.
 

merkholz wrote:
Hello Gary,

With your presence on this and several other message boards I'm not sure if this has been asked before so I beg for your indulgence in answering nonetheless.

When writing Saga of Old City had you already decided upon Gord's true ancestry and great latent powers or did that evolve as you wrote the stories?

Do you remember and care to tell who it was that buried the "warning device" hidden in the old cairn, guarded by the Cataboligne demon in Saga of Old City?

M
 

Howdy,

I had the parantage of Gord in mind when I began writing the initial book in the series, Mind you not all the details, but the general outline of who he was and what he would becme.

As for the second question, no, I do not remember. As I will be reading and polishing the ms. for the reprint of Artifact of Evil, thet might trigger my memory as to the character that placed the hidden alarm.

Cheerio,
Gary
 

chrisspiller wrote:
Hay Gary, I was wondering if you've ever 'ported characters from Greyhawk in LA's Lejendary Earth or Danjerous Journey's campaign world (the name of which escapes me). IIRC, you said some time ago you were running LA characters through Castle Zagyg (or at least Yggsburgh), but I'm more interested in whether or not you've crossed over campaign milieus, not switched game systems.

Just curious given the sections on Boothill and Gamma World in the DMG (I am hoping to get my PC's over to a post-holocaust USA at some point in the future, but am waiting until they really start bothering me  ).

Pax,

Chris
 

The short answer is no. As the LA game system is so different from class-based ones any porting on a grand scale is difficult.
Frankly, doing lengthy conversion work is of no interest to me these days 

Whan LA game Avatars adventue in the Yggsburgh setting I manage the conversion on the spot, winging it.

Cheers,
Gary
 

Fid wrote:
Gary:

Len Lakofka told me that he's going to send you a copy of an old World of Greyhawk map that he has in his archives. Is there any chance you'd be willing to let us old-timers have a look at it? We could quickly throw it up on a website.

There seems to be lot of interest on these boards lately about what your original (pre-Darlene) map may have looked like. Its your call though - I don't even want Len to make a copy for me without your permission.
 

Yes, Len is going to send me a copy of the map. I can not tell from his pics if it is my work or not.

If it is not my work I'll gladly share it.

If it is something I did then I will put it into the archives that I will leave to my wife for her disposal, that being about all the wealth I have to pass on.

Cheers,
Gary
 
 

merkholz wrote:
Gary, I hope I can bother you with another tedious Greyhawk query.

You noted on another messageboard that you never intended to advance the timeline for the World of Greyhawk, instead letting each DM go with their own home campaigns. If so, what was the meaning of the articles in the Dragon that not only detailed the various armies of the Flanaess but also certain events occurring after those described in the '83 boxed set?

I was also wondering when you decided to have Graz'zt as the father of Iuz. It was first hinted to be Orcus but then Graz'zt was caught with his pants down, so to speak.

M
 

Even though it is not a LA game, or even a C&C game, question, I will respond cheerfully!

Those were simply informational pieces that the DM could utilize or not.
The dates were those of my campaign...where tikekeeping was not strictly adhered to.
If the material presented was included in any DM's campaign the date could easily be altered to conform to their version of the WoC.

Cheers,
Gary
 

ScottyG wrote:
Gary, are the TLG Gord reprints going to include the 'At Moonset Blackcat Comes' short story?
It was Gord's introduction to the public, and it's a great short story that many may have missed.

Scott
 

Not only that, but it is tied to "A Revel in Rel Mord."
I have suggested to Steve that it be included in the reprinted version of Night Arrant.

Cheers,
Gary
 
 

Hi Lurkinggherkin,

You are right on both accounts. REH was my first real S&S author and remains a favorite to this day.

Oerth is indeed more influenced by his writing than ever that of JRRT. tolkien did not write S&S, he wrote fantasy, what I would call high fantasy in the LotR trilogy.

Cheerio,
Gary
 

Blue Blaster wrote:
Gary, from your Greyhawk Adventures novel that I am reading, I noticed that it mentions blue lightning during the beginning part of the book about a battle to take Strandkeep Castle. For the 1E ADandD rpg, that means magic of any spell level can have any color of light for its visible physical effects? And according to an article about your two 1980s Greyhawk Adventures novels, they follow the 1E ADandD rpg by covering things about Greyhawk that didn't show in the 1980-1983 Greyhawk campaign settings.
 

Howdy Blue Blaster,

The color of lightning or any other spell's effect is strictly up to the DM, no? The blue is for a special visual effect in the reader's mind. I would have used fuchsia or mauve, but I thought such terminology would not have the desired effect...

As for the seven books I wrote about Gord, their contents are to be read as fiction, not necessarily as material from my Greyhawk campaign or the World of Greyhawk setting.

Cheers,
Gary
 

Blue Blaster wrote:
Gary, from the Artifact of Evil, Greyhawk Adventures novel that I have read, it mentions a bone needle and sinew to close a cut and scraped open wound. What is sinew and a bone needle? Were those material components available in real life during the middle-ages? For the cut and scraped open upper lip that I got from a fist fight in 1992, I sure wish I would have thought of stitching it closed in some way. A bone needle and sinew would have worked for my upper lip? I was afraid to get stitches for my upper lip because I never knew what exactly medical stitching is. Now, I have a one-quarter of an inch thick scar in the upper right side of my upper lip and I am not sure if it can be cut out and then sewn closed.
Howdy,
 

Bone needles have been around since the neolithic period, I should suppose, The American Indians used them.
Sinew is is animal fiber from tendons.

As for real medical care, I have had quite a few stitched-closed woinds over my years.
I do believe that a plastic surgeon can remove most traces of that scar.
You will need to consult sich a medico.

Cheerio,
Gary
 

Thanks 

Dragonchess is a recognized variant on the Chess Variants website.

One of my favorite variant chess game is the Courier Game with my personal variations included. It plays on a 12 x 8 board, and with the pieces I have in it there is definately a center and two flanks for attack and defense.

Shogi is still my favorite chess game, though.

Cheers,
Gary
 

Vendar wrote:
Gary i have just finished reading Saga of the Old City and would like to saythat it is great now my wife who is a gamer as well is reading it.
Thank you very much for writing it.

Good health to you sir.

My thanks to you for the good words 
 

Troll Lord Games will soon release Saga of Old City in hardbound edition, with the other six books in the series following at intervals of a few months.
BTW, I did a very light edit of the original ms., but no one will find any meaningful change in the story because of that.

Cheers,
Gary
 

Saga of Old City in hardback edition is due out in mere weeks.

Troll Lord Games plans to publish subsequent volumes in approximately four-month intervals thereafter. Watch their home page for news.

Cheerio,
Gary
 

Barrataria wrote:
Col_Pladoh wrote:
The World of Greyhawk map and text took me about a month to write.
 

Wow 

Was it (1) a crazy deadline, (2) because much had already been kicking around in your head as you DM'd the Castle campaign, or (3) just because you are a great writer?

I've always had the impression that what actually got into the WoG folio was a fair bit of new material, as opposed to material from your home campaign, so that seems like an unbelievable job. Particularly absent ghost writers, computers/word processing systems, etc. You must have worn out a few of those silly old typewriter erasers 

BB
 

Brian asked me to create a world setting for the A/D&D game as quickly as I could.
I took him at his word.
First I found out the maximum size map we could print, then hand-drew the double-sized map that appeared in the World of Greyhawk product.

That entailed putting in the terrain features and names, names of states, location and names of major population centeres.
The naming part was more work than was placing the map features.
That took me about two weeks time.

Writing the material for the whole was fairly easy, as I could look at what I had drawn and let my creative imagination have free reign.
Of course having been a DM for many years by that time I was well aware of what sort of variety would please the gaming audience.
It was also relatively easy to manage, because I purposely left much of the detail for individual DMs to insert, thus making the setting their own.

As Darlene was working on printable version of the map, I went back and did a bit of further development and polishing to the ms., and that was that.
A month of dedicted and constant attention to the project, and finished after about 250 hours work time.
Frank Mentzer did some further development, adding his and my later material, for the boxed set version.

Cheerio,
Gary
 
 

Kersus wrote:

Maybe you're avoiding this, but I thought I'd bump it.

I also have another question for you. The Gygaxian Fantasy series. Is there a specific book you are most proud of? Are there some books you had more input than others? If you don't want to publically claim one as being most proud of, feel free to email me at kersus@gmail.com! Or PM me. For all your cantankerous debating tactics, your opinion goes a long way; plus I await the day I get to use my best Chinet to entertain the Cosmic EGG. I will most certainly have Bombay Sapphire on hand, although I would tempt you with the superior (IMHO) Plymouth Gin.

As always, thanks for your input. Take it easy!

K
 

Nope, I jusy missed the question.

If I were to recommend a single ERB fantasy novel, which I would not do, it would be the initial one in the series--Mars, Venus, ot Pellucidar.

For my own work, I had the most fun writing the collection of short stories, Night Arrant.

Yuletide best wishes,
Gary
 
 

chrisspiller wrote:
Gary, I knew you had been working on a D&D kovie script and that Orson Wells was interested in it but not that it was set in the WoGH. Do you recall what part of the Flanaese the movie was in and the general plot line of the movie?

Pax,
 

Chris
Yes, I still have a copy of the premise and partial script somewhere in the old paper files.

I do not care to reveal details of this creative work, but I will say it was trans-genre, going from the fantasy world into others.

Cheers,
Gary
 
 

merkholz wrote:
I hope you are recuperating well from your fall, Gary.

I noticed that I posted a question almost a year ago that was never answered so I'll ask it again and see if I get any greater luck this time.

In the novel Artifact of Evil there was a green dragon rider attacking the chariot of fire in which Gord was travelling (also prominently featured on the cover) and I wondered if the rider was meant to be Robilar. If so, why would he try to stop Gord and the others? A simple grab for power? What a sad state for Mordy's old friend.

M
 

Sorry I was so remiss in regards your question.

The charioteer in the novel in question was not meant to be Robilar, not was the character inspired by Rob's fighter with his green dragon.
I simply chose a green drake becaus eit is powerful and likely more tractable than would be a red or blue one.

Cheerio,
Gary
 
 

Rafe wrote:
Hello Gary,

I am a long time fan of your game book series "Sagard the Barbarian".

I wanted to ask you what the writing technique behind such adventure game books is.
Did you write the whole story in a row, and then go back to work out different outcomes for each scene? - Or did you conceive all different ways to complete the adventures right from the start?

- Sorry that my question is very vague this time. My English has some boundaries, for sure...

Yours,

Rafael
 

Hi Rafe,

Now thay question is a memory test for sure...especially since Flint Dille was also involved in the creation of those four books, and son Ernie assisted as well.

IIRR, we graphed out an action tree with multiple branches, location and end result shown on each, then wrote the text from that diagram.

Cheers,
Gary
 

Rafe wrote:
:) Thank you very much!

I had guessed something like that. Did you two write the pieces together, then, or did you exchange your ideas through correspondence/occassional meetings, etc?

Writing a book like that seems extraordinarily complicated to me. 

Yours,

Rafael
 

First I write up the combat system, then Flint and I sat down and worked out the soringboards for the four books.

FLint and Ernie were at our California headwuarters every day, Ernie living there as did i, and Flint using the barn-converted-to-a-studio to doi much of his creative writing.

So collaboration was generally a daily matter.

Cheers,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Upper_Krust
Have you anymore news on the graphic novel representations of the Gord the Rogue novels?
 

Shhhh!

I'm not supposed to be talking about this until the publisher makes an official news release...

The work is going forward, but art delays have causeed a delay in making a public announcement of the release of the series. It had been planned to announce around this time, but I suspect there will be nothing "official" until near the end of the year.

i can say that all the work I have seen so far is really excellent, some even "breathtaking," and that I am champing at the bit for the release!

Ciuao,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Upper_Krust
 

Hi Gary!

One last thing; if you get the opportunity try and slip the 8th installment in there.
Actually, the plan is to do the first two novels, with some of the material from CITY OF HAWKS included, and see how things go. If, as we are pretty certain will be the case, the work is well received, then the publisher will go on to cover the other three main books. As side ventures we'll cover the short stories, and some new material too, all things working out as projected. In effect ther will be like an eighth book.

Cheers,
Gary
 

Originally posted by Upper_Krust
Quote:
Incidently I caught the veiled musings of Tharizdun in Dance of Demons wherein he indirectly equates himself with the Celtic Deity Cernun/Cernunnos. 

Heh. Caught me! I was reading a lot of mythology at the time, so I couldn't resist slipping that into the novel.
 
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Geoffrey
 

The hard work you put into it shows, Mr. Gygax. Aerth is my favorite generic FRPG world out of all the multitude published. In the forward to the original Necropolis, Lester Smith (I think) mentioned that Aerth has its roots in your unpublished world of Oerth (with the published Oerth being a very different version). Can you expand on that?
 

Thanks, Geoffrey 

It was Les who put that into the forward, and yes, I can expand on it a bit.

When I initiated the Greyhawk campaign, I envisaged a world of parallel earth sort.
Thus the geography then assumed was pretty close to that of earth.
Being busy running game sessions, creating dungeon levels, the map of Greyhawk City, writing new material, and also really enjoying "winging it," I never did a large-scale map for the world.

When IU was asked to create a campaign setting for TSR to market, I did a new and compact "world"--that only in part, of course, as that was all I could fit onto the two maps allowed.
So that became the World og Greyhawk.

At that point my campaign play gradually moved from the amorphous "real" planet on which Greyhawk was located to the material one published by TSR.
Being busy as ever, saving what amounted to duplicate labor was happily accepted.

After the split with TSR, I returned to my original concept, painted over a globe of the earth to match my original ideas for a fantasy alternate earth, and thus Aerth was born.
My wife and some others thought I'd lost it when they saw me with acrylics and brushes altering the globe  I still have it around somewhere...

Only after I had the fullly done globe of Aerth did I then set about the research needed to quantify all that was thereon.

Ciao,
Gary
 

Hi derverdammte...

As I based the Gord yarns directly upon gaming, the cosmos was inteed one of infinite size and alternate worlds. a multiverse. Other than that, though, I don't believe that there are parallels to Moorcock, much as I enjoy his writing. Gord was not "eternal," in that he was born and at some point die.

The series has been OOP for a long time, but it's likely you can findthe six books you need to complete the set on Ebay. I'm not supposed to talk about it, but we do have a deal for the series in graphic novel form, full color interior illos, and the story as written, with text in full where pictures are not supplied. The first installment of the first novel will likely hit in mid-2003, a few months delayed from original projected release. I'm relating all this, because if the graphic novels prove a success, the regular ones will likely then be reprinted, initially in hardback version.

Now, if the thieves are also gemcutters, then what of the chips left brom cleving a stone? Those would have to be even in number 

Ciao,
Gary
 
 

Quote:
Originally posted by derverdammte
 

Ah, okay. I was thinking in terms of his being champion of the balance, and at some point (so I've been told) acquiring a black sword, since those are a couple of the archetypal components of being the eternal champion.

Michael did pretty well establish the "Eternal Champion" in that model, but the concept of the magic sword predates Elric by a few centuries, eh? 

The cosmology of Oerth has nine alignments as well, not the three that Moorcock set--and more or less like that of the original D&D too...

I'm not sire that the eternal champion is actually an archetype, but it is an iinteresting concept for sure, a sort of superarchetype in the mold of the mythological demigods.

Quote:
By the way, didn't you write a Moorcock pastiche at some point? I heard about it, but I never found out where it was published or collected.
 

Yes, I wrote a tale in which Gord and Moorcock's Simon teamed up to bring disaster to some contemporary demon worshippers. It was in a paparback anthology titles THE ETERNAL CHAMPION, as I recall.

Quote:
SIX books? Yikes! The other three must come after the book I have ("Dance of Demons," I think it's called).

That sounds seriously cool. I'll have to keep an eye out for it.
 

In order of reading the titles are:
SAGA OF OLD CITY
ARTIFACT OF EVIL
CITY OF HAWKS
NIGHT ARRANT
SEA OF DEATH
DANCE OF DEMONS
COME ENDLESS DARKNESS

The artwork I have so far seen is really teriffic, and I am very anxious to have a look at the work when it begins publication. It will be like rading someone else's yarns, which from my standpoint is great

Cheers,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Clumsy Bob
Hi Gary.

A little question for you if I may. Gord, Chert, Curley and Gellor. Where did these guys originally come from, were they PC's in one of your games or straight out of your head? What made you choose a theif acrobat as the main character in your series of novels and what was the story with the Gord the Rogue novels and the Greyhawk adventures series, why two.
Thats actually three questions, but what the heck.

Cheers

ClumsyBob

Three is okay.

Of the quartet of characters from the novels, Curley Greenleaf is the only PC, one I played for a time. Sadly, I have misplaced or lost his record sheet. I thought a story beginning as I chose required a protagonist of the sort Gord was, a thief and then thief acrobat. It was interesting to develop him in story and imagined adventures too, as I had never played such a PC, although a something-thief demi-human character is familiar to me.

When I parted company with TSR, I could no longer use the "Greyhawk" name, so the five later novels were done with the "Gord the Rogue" banner.

Cheerio,
Gary
 
 

Quote:
To follow up, What I have always enjoyed about Greyhawk was the skeletal feel that you gave it. The adventures you published provided glimpses of the detail that lied beneath the surface, and provided many idea's that a DM could use to flesh out the world a bit more.

Was this purposeful, or by design?

Not being familiar with DJ or LA, did you use the same approach with the gameworlds for those systems?

Taro Sarask
 

Heh, and it was done with purposeful design. I sought to create an interesting, even compelling, base from which the GMs could work so as to create campaigns and adventures with sufficient of their own input, the "group personality" if you will, so as to allow each to be a unique expression.

Yes, in general I did that with the DJ/MYTHUS system--as some hace noted, the EPIC OF AERTH is near a generic fantasy world--and likewise this holds true for the LA game world, the LEJENDARY EARTH. In it I have provided for near endless expansion and variation through "portal anamoly" areas and portals to parallel worlds.

Cherio,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Hypersmurf
Gary,

I've always thought it was fantastic the way you provided some of the "game mechanics" details in the afterword of Saga of Old City. Wish you'd continued the practice with the other novels

But there was one in SoOC that didn't make the afterword. Gellor is gifted with a sword that purported to be invisible when wielded. I loved the idea - I don't recall it actually being showcased "in use" in the novel, but the concept was great.

Did you use a similar item in one of your own games? And if so... what sort of game mechanics were involved?

-Hyp.
 

Thanks Amigo 

After ARTIFACT, I was precluded from adding AD&D material to the stories, of course.

As for the invisible sword that Gellor had, it was not in play in my campaign--not to say I hadn't maybe placed one somewhere 
Aside from its plusses to hit and damage, the weapon allowed its wielder to see any otherwise invisible foe and to attack first in any normal exchange.
Of course there was a command word for it to come to hand--pretty hard to locate your invisible sword without that...
If it was within range of the possessor's voice it woulc fly instantly to that own's hand.

Ciao,
Gary
 
 

Quote:
Diving into my Greyhawk books, (in reference to Tarek's query), the Foreword to the Glossography in the 1983 boxed set has a section that reads: "During Smedger's time, magic was not a lost art, but, apparently, a fading one." The foreword is signed by Steve Winter & Allen Hammack. It is even possible one of them wrote that passage. The topic causes hotly contested debate on Greytalk whenever it turns up, much like whether the Oerth goes round the sun, or the sun goes round the Oerth.
Likely the two named individuals wrote that bit, certainly! Why they did is known only to Messrs. Winter and HAmmack, of course. "Smedgar" was Frank Mentzer.

There is no question in my mind as to the Oerth and the sun. Oerth revolves around the sun.

Quote:
Gary - the Oerth isn't flat, is it?

Oh, and thanks to RJK managing to re-release some of his modules, I'm getting an idea of how fiendish the man can be. Your poor characters have my sympathy.

Cheers!
Oerth is a sphere, and it might be hollow...

Rob learned from me, then added all sorts of horrid nuiances and completely new devices to his store of cruel things to wreak upon PCs. As he did that, I recipriocated, and so our games were lively matters indeed. One face sharpens the other

Cheerio,
Gary
 
 
 

Quote:
Originally posted by herald
Gary,
What was your reasoning in disallowing gunpowder in Greyhawk?
Was it a game balance choice or was it something you felt made Greyhawk special?

Was magic supposed to fade away and gunpowder become usable in the future or was it just not going to work at all. ( I realise that this question borders on pointlessness, as all that really matters in running a game is the current and near future. I just want to have a contextual understanding of why they weren't allowed in the game.)

I do understand that Murlynd was the exception to the rule. As a matter of course, I find alot of what I readabout him very interesting. He sounds like he was alot of fun to play.
 

Adding functional gunpowder to a milieu already filled with active magic that did many things similar to what explosives do seemed both redundant and out of the spirit of a magic-active world. The changes that gunpowder wrought in history are manifold and evident. Furthermore, to bring it into the fantasy mix would mean not only more rules governing it, but more magic aimed at surpressing its effects.

As for it ever working, no. As Oerth was a differnet world, gunpowder and like acting (gas expansion) explosives were never meant to function in the future time there.

Cover it?

Cheers,
Gary
 

Re: Sea of Death
Quote:
Originally posted by Sniktch

I recently got my hands on a copy of this book and really enjoyed it!
Reading about Eclavdra and Obmi and the like really brought me back to some classic old memories of gaming in Greyhawk in the early 80's.

I also remember a short story featuring Gord the Rogue and the Cat Lord in an old issue of Dragon, but could you tell me what other books are in the series, what order they were released in, and where I might be able to find them? I'd love to read more but I don't know where to start looking.

Thanks for the good words, Sniktch 

The long short story appeared in DRAGON #100.

All of the books are OOP--although there should soon be an announcement about the release of a graphic version of them coming later on this year... I hope.
Meantime, the best place to find them is Ebay.

The books, in reading order are:
SAGA OF OLD CITY
ARTIFACT OF EVIL
CITY OF HAWKS
NIGHT ARRANT
SEA OF DEATH
DANCE OF DEMONS
COME ENDLESS DARKNESS

Cheerio,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Sniktch

Thanks for the quick response (although to be honest, I waited to ask until I knew you were online ). I'll start my digging on e-Bay, then, and I'm really looking forward to hearing more news about the possible forthcoming graphic novels.
 

Right! I am quite enthused about the graphic novels, having seen samples of the really excellent illustration (full color) that is being done for the series.
The material from CITY OF HAWKS is being used to completely fill in the base of the initial novel, SAGA OF OLD CITY, and will also be used thus in the ARTIFACT OF EVIL graphic novel. I suppose it is obvious that I am most anxious to see the work in print 

Cheers,
Gary

Short story collections sell only about two-thirds the quantity of full-length novels of the same size. Sadly, I had the most fun--and challenge--writing the yarns found in NIGHT ARRANT. It did quite well, but was indeed the book that sold the fewest copies of the series.

I can't fault readers, though, for I tend to prefer full novels myself, even over a collection of related short stories that are themselves a near-complete tale. Knowing what I do now, I could easily have linked the separate yarns into a novel addinf perhaps 30 pahes or so in the proicess, and likely making readers happier with the result.

Merric, I think SETTLERS OF CATAN (original game) is a classic, and we always enjoy playing it. I am interested in CARCASSONNE more from the standpoint of fortification and siegecraft than from a game perspective, but if it can provide a fun gaming esperience, so much the better. Now to find the time to hunt down a copy, read the rules, and get people to play...

Cheers,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Upper_Krust
Hi Steverooo! 

I still can't decide which novel (of the series) I liked the best...I loved them all! 

However I have to challenge your comment about the 'weak finish'; personally I thought there were a number of fantastic swerves in the last book. I don't want to spoil anything for those yet to read the series by revealing them, but what you think is going to happen is turned on its head more than once while still all making sense.
 

hirning in here, I just want to say thanks for those very kind worfds abut the series. I wrote it as fantasy thet reflected the AD&D game in feel and scope of action. I suppose it's obvious I like action in my stories and games too 

Anyway, it is great to read that you enjoyed the plot twists. SOme of them sort of wrote themselves, as the characters took over and began to direct things outside the planned story outtline I had scripted for them. Funny thing about that is it really happens.

Cheers,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Decado
Gary,

I have been following this thread for a while now and wanted to thank you for creating something that has given me years of enjoyment.

TTOEE is my all time favorite series and I have been DMing it for four years now in a play by post game. I as a DM I really enoy the fact that it is open enough to add my own material which I have done on numerous occasions. I wish there modules like that being published now. I did just purchase Necropolis and am working on intergrating it into my Greyhawk Campaign. I was considering placing it in the Sea of Dust or Dry Steepes.
A mutually shared pleasure, i assure you It is good to learn that you appreciate the creative room I always try to leave for GMs, so that the material can be personalized as well as fit into the unique campaign.
 

As for placing the Necropolis adventure, I'd recommend that you move it off map to a new continent that can a accommodate more civilizations. Nothing wrong with having an Egyptian-Indian-Persian-Burmese-Chinese land mass separated from the Oerik map....if you are so inclined.
 
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Janos Antero
I was always a fan of your villians in the early Gord the rogue novels, especially for how they seemed to break the mold (although at the time I suppose there really wasn't a mold in the same sense) of villians we see today.

Thanks. Not a few critics claim my villains lack redeeming qualities, are thus not complete and "dimensional," but that's the way I see really evil individuals. No touchy-feely, blame society sort of hogwash for me. they have nothing whatsoever to recommend them, no depth of character, and their motives are simply to do what is malign. Hey, that sounds a lot like game reviewers! Heh-heh.

[
 
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Janos Antero
 

[snippage]

So since we've got you going on about the old days here, how about telling us about one of your favorite characters on the side of "good", or at least not one of the villians?
 

Thanks for the good words, amigo  To avoid blushing I snipped the lot. Heh-heh. BTW, Iggwilv is the sweet and loving lady you refer to, I am sure.

The closest I came to a human gone bad was Wastri, "The Hopping Prophet." I must admit I relished describing his fall from a seeker after inner, and greater, knowledge into a hunter of gnomes for "sport." Iuz was born bad, but of course his parentage had something to do with that <eek>

Fact is I never really developed any strong NPCs of Good for play in the campaign.
The reason for that is twofold.
First, many of the players had characters of that alignment.
Second, the Evil team would have felt obliged to assail that NPC, and to withstand such an assault the character would have had to be so powerful as to be otherwise an overmatch for most any Evil in the campaign--short of the demi-deital sort.
Add to that the main team of "bad guys," Erac's Cousin, Robilar, and Teric were not ravening sorts, so that there was no campaign demand for retribution.
They were as willing to combat NE and CE adversaries as they were any other.

Likely the inclusion of Mordenkainen, bigby, and the rest of my PCs as a Neutral force in the campaign moderated excesses, of course, those of Good as well as Evil. I kept them as active in play so as to make the campaign viable for all alignments, No faction could expect to dominate with the Circle of Eight there to keep the balance. Beside that, it gave me a chance to team up with any group when someone else was DMing, and thus I could play more 

Cheers,
Gary
 
 

Re: Who is Rose Estes?
Quote:
Originally posted by Nine Dragons
Hello Gary,

I have a question, which came up a few weeks ago in another thread about D&D-related female authors, which I'm hoping you can resolve. Is "Rose Estes" a real person or a pseudonym for one or more then-TSR authors? One person in the aforementioned thread even went so far as to suggest it was actually Roger E. Moore. I tend to believe "she's" a real person, possibly related to one "Lydia Estes (then aged 10)" who was credited as a playtester for some Tom Wham game printed in Dragon Magazine.
 

Howdy Nine Dragons!

Rose Estes us a real person. She worked at TSR for a time before becoming a freelance writer. Lydia is her daughter. Rose lived in a house owned by tom Wham for a time, but she removed from this area about a year or so back.

Quote:
Incidentally, I'm just now delving through the 1st of the New Infinities Gord the Rogue books (I just acquired all 5, so it's all new to me), and I'm really enjoying it. I haven't yet been able to pick up the two earlier books under the Greyhawk banner, so I'd really like to see that potential re-release you've mentioned come to fruition (especially if it's hardcover)! Any chance we'll ever see any new Gygax novels (fantasy or otherwise) in the future?
The two Gord books published under the TSR logo might be found on Ebay. Those will be done as graphic novels, of course.
 

As for me writing more novel-length fiction, that's not in the cards in the foreseeable future. Too many other projects on my plate, and no particular world upon which to place any new adventures--of Gord or some other protagonist. I did have fun writing the short "Magister Setne Inhetep, Wizard-Priest" fantasy mystery novels. But that world is also no longer one upon which I can base material.

Cheers,
Gary
 
 

Quote:
Originally posted by BigBastard
Gary, what direction would have Greyhawk gone if you did not have TSR stolen from you? How different would it be today?

Speculation...

Timelines would be loose indeed 

The would would be a complete globe with more continents and states thereon with contributions from Len Lakofka and Francois Marcela-Froideval/

There would be several WoG sourcebooks detailing places such as the Great Kingdom, the "Barbarians (Frost, ice, Snow)," etc.

A major module would be done regarding the area around the Rift and the place proper. Another dealing with the Sea of Dust would be done. Possibly adventures regarding the Scarlet Brotherhood and the Horned Society would be available. Likely a couple of more from Len and Francois would be in the line.

There would be some "porrtal accessed" adventures, these likely found in a series of modules detailing more of the Underdark and the Sunless Sea. The portals would lead to non-fantasy-genre settings.

In all, for every question answered regarding the world, at least one new one would be created and left unanswered, for my purpose was to have a world that the DM could complete and customize as suited his group.

In all likelihood Castle Greyhawk and the City of Greyhawk would be available products.

That's it off the top of my head--first time I've actually gone to such detail in considering what I would likely have done.

Cheers,
Gary
 

Howdy Janos 

Fact is that after the 'Wars stuff and the 'Ashes material that followed, I paid no attention to the setting.
Those two efforts unalterable changed the world from any direction I would have taken it.
My work and general approach are expressed amply in the material that was published.

So the short answer is that there's no profit for anyone in my critiquing the material that exists.

Cheers,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Hadit
 

Alas! The loss of possibility of all this Greyhawk material makes me sad. Frankly, I couldn't stand one iota of the Greyhawk stuff released after you left TSR, Gary... they just couldn't do it right. I was pleased that WotC ressurected the setting for 3E, but I don't feel they've supported it in a decent way either.
If there was some way for you to publish the stuff you've mentioned above in a generic game setting, grognard's would rejoice!
Another thing I would have jumped at greedily: a deities book for the Greyhawk pantheon.
Oh, well.
 

If all those who use the world setting agreed with your assessment, then it would be a sure thing, and I could write 'generic" material for the setting...

About the best prospect is that of "Zagig's Castle." Even that isn't looming large currently, as Rob Kuntz is offline and inactive now. Of course, I am still not sure I want to spend two or more years of my life on that project.

Ciao,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Joseph Elric Smith
Now we just have to hope he finds it 
So gary did you ever have a creation myth for the world of greyhawk? explain how it came to be etc.?
Ken
 

Mike Mornard suggested that it was spun into existance by the Great Spoder.

I never got that far in working backwards into the history of the world--too much contemporary material that needed attention.

Cheers,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Aeolius
another question...

Gary, in your mind, how old is Oerth? Is it millions of years old, thus capable of generating fossils, species evolution, and mass extinctions? Or was it whipped up by the gods 20,000 years prior to Oerth's recent history?

(Yes, I asked this on GreyTalk, as well)
 

What a question! just between us it's one that I think the DM should decide

The long history with ages passing is great, but that means all manner of additional material needed for the campaign, including possible past races, gods, etc.

Enough of the past can be garnered in a history that spans only some tens of thousands of years, not billions or many millions.

I envisioned the Oerth, the World of Greyhawk, as a parallel earth far removed from out own probability, a much more recent one that was spun off by the deities that are found there. If another DM wants to have it as one as old as this world and can manage the details, fine.

Cheers,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
Ver' interesting. I note that Sea of Death seems to indicate Indian-like states (Changol, Jahind, etc.) in Oerik, west and south of the Sea of Dust/Suloise Empire...

There are some of Gary's ideas of elder ages of the AD&D multiverse, and by necessity the WoG, in The Slayer's Guide to Dragons, which I am much enjoying.
 

Just the way a verbig would say that 

Mthanks for the lauds, but make that Gary and Jon Creffield.
Jon is a very talented writer whose work will be seen more and more, I think.

Cheerio,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Flexor the Mighty!
Gary can you tell me if the Gord GN's will be able to feature the Greyhawk names and locations?

Whatever is in the novel will be in the graphic form, so the later ones will not have Greyhawk names not found in the first two.
Actually, as parts of City of Hawks will be picked up to flesh out the initial two graphic novel series, these will be somewhat expanded versions of the first two stories.

Cheers,
Gary
 

Re: Re: Re: Enough about beer, back to reality.
Quote:
Originally posted by Geoffrey

Gary, would you be amenable to sharing some details of this pre-1978 homebrewed setting?

Briefly, I will do so 

The planet was much like our earth.
Think of the world of Aerth as was presented for the MYTHUS FRPG.

The city of Greyhawk was located on the lakes in about the position that Chicago is, and Dyvers was north ar the Milwaukee location.
The general culture was pseudo mediaval European.
Some of the kingdoms shown on the WoG map were around the adventure-central area, the City of Greyhawk.

More details aren't really possible, as the sketch maps I used are long gone <frown>

Cheers,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Flexor the Mighty!
Hey Gary I just wanted to let you know how much I enjoyed reading "Saga of Old City" the past few days. Why I passed these up back in the day blows my mind! Anyway the parts that happen in Greyhawk really get me going to get the party I'm running now into the city. So much adventure to be had there. This book nails the old ad&d feel better than any other TSR/D&D novel I've read. Now it's time for "Artifact of Evil"!

What you note makes me happy, Flexor. I did the gord novels in order to convey the S&S feel of AD&D without any particular consideration to literary merit.
The books are fantasy action adventure that reflect how I think the "feel" of an AD&D game campaign should translate to stories.

Gene Weigel had a pretty good map up online for a time of the City of Greyhawk as I envisaged it drawn from the Gord yarns.
I plan to use Gene for commentary about the city and Gord in the pages of the graphic novels.

Cheerio,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Phebius
Good Morning, sir.

I was reading Artifact of Evil last night at work. (Don't tell my boss ) and noticed a line about the circle of 8. I've heard that the TSR and later WOTC membership of the Circle were not the same as the Circle in your campaign. In the book, Bigby was the only member mentioned by name (Unless Melf was a member) So, who were the others? Was it a rotating membership? Did people enter and leave on a regulay basis? And did the members have to be magic-users? Sorry that my Greyhawk knowledge is on the fritz.

The Obsidian Citadel and its Circle of Eight wasoriginal to my own campaign. When Mordenkainen was at a level I considered too high for normal adventuring, I used the money he and his associates had amassed to construct the siad fortress. The members of the 'Circle were Mordenkainen and his associates--others of my PCs. The latter included Bigby, Yrag the fighter, Rigby the cleric, Zigby the Dwarf, the Elves Vram and Vin, and Felnorith as principles. A number of lesser PCs were associated.
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Hadit
Heya Gary,

Mention of the Lake of Unknown Depths has sparked a trivial (but old) question I've had for awhile.
How do you pronounce Nyr Dyv? (I've always said it like: "nyer deev".)
Also, how do you pronounce Flanaess?

Thanks, Duglas

What's in a name?

Well, FWIW, here is how I mumble those names <eek>

Nyr Dyv: "Nir Div," with a punning "Near Dive" when PCs were about to be immersed.

Flanaess: "Flan-AeCE," the stressed syllable almost sounding "ace," the "Ae" like "Ay" perhaps.

Cheers,
Gary
 

Quote:
I just wanted to say how much I enjoyed the Gord the Rogue series. I just finished "Dance of Demons" and it was a blast. Reading these books has given me a new take on how demons and celestials act. The rigid dogma and inflexible attitudes of the Solars they encountered was interesting. No turn the other cheek attitude there.

Heh, and the alignments as defined in OAD&D are fairly narrow, and as I mentioned earlier, Lawful good is LAWFUL first, that being the qualifier of Good. The Biblical example in the Hebrew Scriptures of the Mosaic is a good guideline as to how the LG ethos operates.

Quote:
Reading about Graz'zt, Zuggtmoy, Demogorgon and all the major demons was quite a thrill as they were one of the things that caught my eye when browsing the MM back in 1983, which led to me starting gaming. The ending was cool, was that your way of "washing" your hands of the setting? I kind of think that if you had just left off after the final fight between Gord and "T" it would have been better. But I'm a sucker for a "Good guy gets screwed", Stephen King style ending.

When I penned the Gord yarns I was not attempting literary excellence but rather seeking to convey the action and adventure imagined in the play of AD&D..as set in the World of Greyhawk. i confess i had a lot of fun writing the material too 

When T$R started messing around with the setting, I did indeed decide to let them know what I thought of that, wrote the conclusion to the series that I did to put a point on it. Of course I did leave it sufficiently vague to allow for a return of a parallel WoG if relations ever improved. Then came the changes to the setting that made it virtually impossible to ever restore the original setting. Such is creative life.

Anyway on to "Night Arrant" and I eagerly await the graphic novels. Bravo on the quality storytelling.

There is a delay of the graphic novel until December, this due to problems with illustrators and inkers, i am told. The initial series will cover SAGE OF OLD CITY with parts of CITY OF HAWKS thrown in, then the second book will be ARTIFACT OF EVIL, again with additions from CoH to round it out more fully. given the success of those two, the other novels will then be treated graphically, and likely some new material added.

BTW, I had the most fun writing the short stories in NIGHT ARRANT, as creating good short stories is a challenge more demanding than writing a whole novel.

Cheers,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krypter
Hello Gary,

I was wondering how you developed the world of Greyhawk. I know it was undoubtedly an organic growth with pieces being fleshed out through your games, but later on when the project was becoming commercial, did you have specific design goals for Greyhawk? I've heard people commenting that Forgotten Realms is a "high-magic" setting with really powerful NPCs doing most of the adventuring while Greyhawk is a grittier world where evil often wins and even the most powerful NPCs (like the Circle of Eight) promote Neutrality rather than Good. The history of Greyhawk does seem a lot nastier than FR.

Was this intentional design or a later development at TSR?
 

Well...

When I was asked by TSR to do my World of Greyhawk as a commercial product I was taken aback.
I had assumed most DMs would far perfer to use their own world settings.
Furthermore, as I was running a game with a large number of players involved, I really didn't want to supply themwith the whole world on a platter.
I'll repeathere what has been told before 

I found out the maximum map size TSR could produce, got the go-ahead for two maps of that size, then sat down for a couple of weeks and hand-drew the whole thing.
After the maps were done and the features shown were named, I wroite up brief information of the featyres and states.
Much of the information was drawn from my own personal world, but altered to fit the new one depicted on the maps.

Whatever came out from TSR regarding the World of Greyhawk up through 1985 was from me, with a bit of material added as filler coming from Frank Mentzer after I approved the work.

The relatively low level of NPCs, and the balance between alignments was done on purpose so as facilitate the use of the world setting by all DMs.
With a basically neutral environment, the direction of the individual campaign was squarely in the hands of the DM running it.
The Circle of Eight came into the setting when it seemed to me that my PCs were generally too powerful to remain in active play, and they were put into the mix for DMs to use in case they wanted to keep the setting from being dominated by Good or Evil, to a lesser extent Law or Chaos and even true Neutrality.
That was done because to my way of thinking dominamce by one alignment group tends to restrict the potential for adventuring.

If that doesn't fully answer your question, come on back.

Cheers,
Gary
 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColonelHardisson
Hiya Gary! I have a question that I'm sure has been asked before, but I figured I'd ask again.

In your original vision for Greyhawk, did gunpowder work? If you had projected ahead in Greyhawk's history, and worked on a campaign along the lines of something like the "Greyhawk 2000" article from Dragon a couple years back, would gunpowder be readily manufactured? Is there anything that would prevent gunpowder from being made, or if it was made, anything that would keep it from being combustible, at least combustible enough to prevent its use in firearms?
 

Well Suh!

I do not believe that magic and gunpowder technology mix well.
It can be done, as Stanly Weinbaum proved in his post-catyclysm fantasy novel...the title of which escapes me at the moment.
There was a spell that sset off gunpowder and like explosives at a considerable distance.
Having gunbpowder weapons really moves the game from the fantasy genre to some other, wierd or science fantasy.
Which brings me to the short answer:

No, I didn't have working gunpowder nor did I contemplate having gunpowder weapons in the campaign.

See my next reply for the answer to a seeming anomaly in my response 

Cheers,
Gary
 

Quote, Jayaint:

1. Can you let us in on any more "secrets" about the origins of different elements of GH?
I really enjoyed learning, and have wow'ed some of my friends by pointing out, that the GH map is Northern Ill, Wisc. and Mich just turned like 270 degrees upside down.

Actually, most of the singular sinister attitude of mind expressed in the original WoG work has been revealed--
the names of persons, places, and things drawn from actual persons or puns--although the website dealing with that has a number of erroneous ones.

Maybe if you have specific questions I can supply something, though.
 

Quote:
Ok, I lied, I have another question.
Originally Posted by mattcolville

To what extent, if any, would you say politics and war played a role in your games? My first experiences with D&D were in a Greyhawk game modeled closely after Glen Cook's Black Company series and I've always felt A: that Greyhawk was very much a realm in which political realities could play a part and B: it fit well with the tone of the Black Company books, of which I do not know if you are aware.

After 20 years of no good mass combat/realm management solution for D&D apart from things we kitbashed together, I participated in the core design of such a product, recently released for 3.0/3.5. Did you have a need for such a thing and, if so, how did you resolve such issues? Your characters obviously became powerful and influential, some were landed nobles, yes? How did they rule their realms?

Thanks for your generosity in these threads.
 

In general the player group in my campaign were not much interested in politics and warfare.
When I played, my PCs I was always meddling in politics and had a large army, so some warfare was played out with Rob as the DM.
The lands rules by my PCs, that is Mordenkainen and his followers, were gained by his formation of a raiding force, that being developed into a standing army.
It was supported initially by raiding and pillaging opponents, then by the resources of the territory gained by military action.
As it was mainly against aggressive humanoid forces and nomadic raiders, the settled states around his holdings were happy to support and trade with the newly formed political entity.

Greyhawk was set up to enable both political play and large-scale warfare; and I agree that Glen Cook's "Black Company" is a good reference for including such considerations in a campaign.
I made a stab at mass combat with Swords & Spells, but I believe its system was too abstract for most D&Ders who were not inculcated in large-scale military miniatures play.

As I don't play new D&D I can't comment on the current efforts to provide rules for such warfare.

Cheers,
Gary

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jehosephat
Gary,

Greetings! This brings to mind something that I have often thought about. My favorite column to read in Dragon Magazine is "Up On a Soapbox". When I pick up a back issue that's the first thing I look for. I love reading the exploits of Tenser, Robilar, Yrag or whoever else you would be writing about in the given month. My question is this, is there ever a chance of some kind of Greyhawk diary or journal beling released where you collect these kinds of tales. My guess is that you have 1000s of them that you could choose from. I for one would love to read that sort of thing. More so if it also contained some bits of campaign information that showed the early stages of Greyhawk and how and why it came together in the fashion that it did. I expect that there would be many others who would be interested in this sort of thing too.

Sincerely,
Rob
 

Hi Rob

Pleased to learn you enjoy those old tales of the early D&D adventures we had. After so long a time it isn't possible to say how many interesting events have been forgotten, but surely there were some. However, as with all campaigns, we had far more unremarkable sessions than interesting ones. I wish there were even scores more to tell, but my list of springboards for columns is down to a handfull or so.

Fortunately, Rob Kuntz has pitched in, written four accounts of adventures, and he assures me he has a fair number of additional ones. When all of my recollections are set down in print, and Rob's essays are completed, we plan to collect the lot and publish them in book form. That will be at least two years from now, The volume won't be large, but hopefully sufficiently so to make it worthwhile for readers.

Cheers,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jehosephat
Gary,

thank you for the reply. I for one will be looking forward to that book. <veryhappy> Right or wrong, those types of accounts are what seem to get my creative juices flowing and itching to play some D&D.  In fact I am getting ready to launch a new Greyhawk campaign within the week.

Just this morning I was rereading the account of Robilar's planned excursion to the moon. I would have payed money to see the look on Rob Kuntz's face when Herb the Sage presented his giant catapult. Gosh, that just gets more comical each time I read it.

Herb thought it was a good idea at the time, rather as some SF writers on opur world thought that firing a space vessel from a giant cannon to reach the moon would be workable.

Rob took the whole thing quite calmly, all things considered, the huge outlay of gold pieces that Robilar had made. However, it soured him on Lunar exploration, which saddened me, because I was planning on having thre moon a place like "Hothouse World," with all manner of mutant plants and people on it, as well as some little sprite-like races dwelling around the verge of the vast central jungle.

Ain't magic grand?

Cheers,
Gary

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Mouser
Hi Gary,

I was recently rereading your old Gord the Rogue short story in DRagon #100, "At Moonset Blackcat Comes." In the story you have Gord and Rexfelis playing "Dragon Chess" and there are rules for the game directly following the story. I'm wondering of you actually played the game to any extent (I imagine you'd have to have played it a little in order to actually right up the rules!). Was it an enjoyable game? I always thought about constructing a 3-level board and giving it a go but never got around to it (a shame, that).

I myself enjoy the occasional game of chess, but don't get to play much any more. Some of my fondest memories are playing a friend of mine to several stalemates in a row (he would go to chess tournaments on occasion so I viewed this as an accomplishment - besides, he HATED that he couldn't beat me! ;-).

Thanks,

Gray Mouser
 

Howdy Gray Mouser!

Yes, I played the Dragon Chess game--by myself. It came out quite well despite that, and it is a recognized variant on the http://www.chessvariants.com/ website.
Go there and have a look. Some of the fellows there have made a few suggested changes

I too love chess games, seldom have opportuity to play.
Amongst my favorites are shogi, double chess, and a revised courier game where there is on the king's side of the board a piece combining the powers of the K and N,
so as to have a real attack threat there.

Cheers,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogbrain
I was thumbing through my base Greyhawk material (the original--the folio folder) and started to wonder: Whatever happened to "long ago and far away" as the basic tone of roleplaying setting publications? That was something that I liked about the older Greyhawk stuff. All the "official" material was presented as a history of a very distant past. I like that.

These days, nearly everything has this "here and now and here are all the details in excruciating detail" approach. I liked the more "incomplete because it's distant history" approach.
 

Hello Dogbrain

You are preaching to the choir in regards to keeping quantification to the bare minimum needed to present an interesting and exciting experience. My reason is because I think that approach allows and encourages participant imagination and creative addition, those exercises making the material more personal to the participating group. That said, sometimes the "bare minimum" is rather highly detailed.

Cheers,
Gary
 
 

Quote, T. Foster:
...and while I'm here, I suppose I'll ask some more questions about the Greyhawk Campaign: a lot of stories seem to involve only 1 or 2 players (with or without assorted henchmen and hirelings). How typical were these more 'intimate' adventures compared to the larger group efforts -- in your estimation was more play done in large groups or small groups? Was it assumed that once characters reached a certain level that they would branch off into these sorts of 'extracurricular' adventures? And also, how was it decided who would play when -- was it simply a matter of which players showed up on which nights (i.e. "Rob's the only player here so I guess Robilar's going solo tonight"), or would you figure in advance which players should come when and in what combinations?

Regards,

T. Foster
 

Back in those halcyon days we played in large groups on weekends, while during the week smaller parties were DMed by me, or another of the ones who had campaigns--
Rob mainly (and thus he was made co-DM of my campaign late in 1974).

Adventures with 10 to 20 PCs were fun, if hectic, and few of any of such mass forays were of memorable sort, other than perhaps for the number of low-level characters being done for and new one's hastily rolled up.
Because of that, and the fact that the more skilled veterans with higher-level PCS wanted adventures of less chaotic sort, the sessions with smaller groups were much in demand.
As Ernie, Don, Rob and Terry in my house or near to it, were family or friends, they came by often to play, rob more so than the rest, followed by Ernie and Terry, for Don had a day job and a family.

As I was working at home I did not schedule play sessions, but when a gamer or two dropped in of a day, I made haste to finish immediate work and put on my DM's hat.
Evening games with the regulars were generally schedules a few hours or a day or two ahead.

In 1974 the veteran group had doubled in size,and as it was necessary for me to spend more time working on revising the game, Rob took over some of those sessions.
The "wild bunch" showing up for weekend adventures was also larger, so Rob and I co-DMed those mass expditions.

Cheers,
Gary
 

As for Darlene, I don't recall her doing much RPG play, but I most certainly do agree that her maps for the WoG were tops!
Sheis now married, living on the East Coast, and considering doing some map work for my Zagyg's Castle project 

Cheers,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mistere29
I know you changed your (and rob's) greyhawk campaign around for publication. How much of the setting was developed during actual play. (as opposed to detailed for the published setting. )

Further Greetings, Mistere29,

You are ahead of Rob and I in regards the re-creation of our original dungeon levels.
I am nearly finished with new campaign-base material for the central thems, the ruined castle and its many dungeons.
Rob, meantime, is devising an introduction to Zagyg, the Mad Archmage.
All of that will take a few more months to complete.
When that is accomplished, we will then turn out attention to the castle and dungeons.

We will use my original scheme of the dungeons, altering them as need be for coherant presentation to a general audience of GMs.
That means a lot more text and explanation, for I winged encounters, and as Rob learned from me, so did he.
The major features from the original levels he and I designed will be included in the re-design of the castle, just as my original work was incorporated into the huge new dungeon complex Rob and I created by combining our respective castles.
Additionally, as that complex was explored and exploited, we created new levels and changed things. In all, the original work was one that was in progress, continually in flux of change.

We will do our best to make the printed version not only true to the spirit of the underlying material, but also accommodating for GMs who wish to have "living" dungeons.

Finally, we will not give all away.
Where there are great mysteries involved, such as the Great Stone Face and the Disappearing Jeweled Man, we plan to offer the GMs several possible answers 
Overall, the PCs adventuring in the dungeons will encounter the same challenges as faced the original delvers in 1972 and onwards, that Robilar discovered and Mordenkainen met.

Cheers,
Gary
 

Ciao Mistere29,

Actualy, about 80% of the game action in my old GH campaign centered on the castle and dungeons and in city adventures. Wilderness adventuring covered the balance of what wasn't published in various modules from TSR. The dungeon-centricity of the campaign was by popular demand, and that's why there were so many levels and side adventures based off of encounters in the depths 

As for your LA game campaign, why not go with what most appeals to you, what you feel confortable with and have a lot of fun with? This will generally translate to the players enjoying things, for your enthusiasm will be contageous.

In my own game I don't hesitate to use a published module now and again so as to change the pace from my style to that of another--a bit at least.

Come on back if that doesn't cover it.

Cheers,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RFisher
Gary,

I always wondered about Gord's special abilities that you described in the appendix to the first novel. (If I recall correctly: +1 to hit/damage w/ longsword & dagger, no penalties for dual-weilding, was that it?) Are these only there because you were writing fiction, or would you let PCs have this sort of thing?

The last time I read that particular book was about 15 years ago, so I confess to no memory of the special capacities I noted for Gord.
That said, they can be easily explained by sword specialization.
ambedexterity, and the fact that his father was a deity 
You can bet your last buck that I didn't allow that sort of thing for a PC...

Quote:
Another completely unrelated thing I wondered about recently: In the early days, when Rob DMed for you, were you typically the only player?
It seems like nearly all of the tales I recall of your PCs don't feature anyone else's PCs.

Because Rob was kind enough to DM for me when I was working at home, about half of the adventures I enjoyed were single player--me playing one or more, usually more, of my PCs.
the remainder of play was with one or more other persons, on occasion a dozen or more, so I can play just about any way.
the tales I recount are generally those of more memorable sort--easy when only one person is making the decisions and those decisions turn out very well or most unfortunate...

Quote:
I was thinking of asking what question you get asked the most. Then I thought it might be more interesting to ask: What is a question you hardly ever get asked that you think should be asked more often?

You found just the right question, one that I am interested in answering too!
If nobody has asked, who cares what I think about something not sufficiently interesting to others to have inquired about? 

Oh all right: Do I enjoy killing PCs when I GM?
A The answer is definately not in the least, especially if they belong to regular players.
there I do all I can to prevent such loss without directly intervening in players' actions for their characters.
However, rather like playing "giveaway checkers," such a session can be fun and challenging as a convention game where arbitrary means of having characters meet their demise are out of the question.
The last session I played like that was at GenCon 2002, and darned if one of the nine PCS didn't manage to save her PC from death, so the team beat me as the GM.

Heh,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Mouser
Colonel,

...

My question is this: Did you experience the same sort of thing when starting out?
I'm sure since you were older and an experienced wargamer there would be a major difference at least in rate of PC death, but I'm wondering if, for instance, the famous Mordenkainen or Yrag, et. al. are all originals or if he's actually "Mordenkainen III." ;-)

Gray Mouser
 

I never lost any of my main PCs, although most of them "died" at least once and were resurrected or wished back to life by their fellow adventurers. Even though I was over 30 then I did now and again get a bit rash. Once when the DM was really lousy, Yrag threw himself on his sword in disgust. Murlynd, Robilar, Tenser, and Terik brought his corpse back and had him resurrected...with another person as the DM <laughing>

A fighter PC of mine in Brian Blume's campaign with a natural 18 strength, 17 constitution and 16 dexterity was killed before getting to 2nd level, lost and gone forever <frown>
The same is true of a half-orc cleric-assassin PC of mine, but he got to 3rd level before biting the dust.

Cheers,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordHavok
Another ? I had: Gord the Rogue. I remember reading the books years ago and was wondering if that was ever a character that you or someone else actually played? If not, where did you come up with him?

(I know..I know...that's a horrible and typical question to ask any writer. "So how do you come up with your ideas...?..  )

I made it all up out of my imagination, pure and simple. The only PCs actualy played in the yarns were Melf, played by my son Luke, and Curly Greenleaf, one of my many characters.

Cheerio,
Gary

Quote:
Originally Posted by mythusmage
Most authors merely write themselves into a story, but our Gary has to include the family. <stick out tongue>

Alan, that is true in spades!

The map of the Flanaess is loaded with family and friends names in one or another form 

Cheers,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dead
Also, after you left TSR, you finished the Gord the Rogue books.
At the end of the cycle, Oerth bites the bullet.
Was this your way of saying that Greyhawk is dead and that fans should turn away from TSR's version with disdain?

More my way of saying that since T$R had killed the setting with trash releases, it was time to wipe out the shame by obliterating the setting.
Of course, I left a means of restoring it hidden within in the Gord story saga...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dead
So . . . in other words, did TSR release the Invoked Devestation (WG7 and others) and you respond in kind with the Rain of Colorless Fire (the final Gord book).
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by grodog
While you're updating us, Gary, do you have any news to share on the Gord story reissues? <devious>

The problems in the comic book field have pretty well put the damper on the Gord the Rogue illustrated novels. I have not heard anything positive from the prospective publisher since last spring When the new year rolls around i hope to get a final decision. If the project is dead, then I will begin shopping for a publisher to re-issue the seven books.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad Le Démon
1. You have played with François Marcela Froideval, right ? Is it true that L'Empire de Lynn is located on Oerth ?

Yes, and yes. His area of Oerth was located to the west, and it included the island of Mephreton.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by foehammerx
Do you still run games in your original D&D world and if so, IN YOUR HOME GAME what has become of The overking of the really great Kingdom?

No, seldom if ever do i run O/AD&D game sessions on the WoG. Once the setting passed from my hands I lost interest in it.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by foehammerx
In your home WoG campaign what was the biggest most high level epic extravaganza you ever ran?".

Never did we get into anything of that sort.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krieg
I'm starting to get worried that I am going to get gout just from reading this thread!

Gary, back when you were exiled to Hollywood as the media entertainment head of TSR how far along did plans progress towards the D&D movie? Were their actual scripts in the works and if so written by whom? Plans being made for casting or director selection? etc

I had meetings with many studio heads, and we had a completed script written by james Goldman. The Blume brothers refused to make the final payment, so the potential deals we had for producing a motion picture based on it went south.

About a year later I co-wrote a partial fantasy film script with Flint Dille. The whole premise was also writen up along wth a "bible." It was based on the World of Greyhawk, and the action took the viewer into other genres of fantastic and historical sort. That project I put together with the crew of Dungeons & Dragons Entertainment Corp. Orson Wells loved it and agreed to play the main supporting role--the villianous mage. thus armed, I took it to Edgar Gross, the Executive Producer for John Boorman. After three meetings, Edgar said Mr. boorman was definately interested.

Before the deal could be concluded thus, I had to return to Lake Geneva because of the state of affiars at TSR--it was near bankruptcy due to mismanagement. In a couple of month's time Lorraine Williams managed to get control of the compamy. That ended all interest in the film, and at the same time killed the new spinoff project based on the D&D Cartoon Show tha was actually moving forward up to that point with new scripts being written and the concluding episode for the original show completed.

Sadly,
Gary
 
 

Originally Posted by Gray Mouser
Come to think of it, was there ever a Greyhawkian "Atlantis"?
I don't recall reading about any sunken continents in the gazateer but could certainly be wrong about that.

Such a place might have existed to the east of Oerik in the area that Francois Marcela Froideval had created for his campaign.
I seem to recall him mentioning it, but it's been about 25 years...
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanguinemetaldawn
Although it didn't yield anything useful, thanks for addressing my earlier question.

To Greyhawk specifically...
Were you to run GH today what published material would you use?
Would a simple "all pre-2nd Ed" cut-off suffice?
Some you would exclude even from that?
More you would include?

Thanks again.

I have run little WoG-based games since 1986. when i do run OAD&D sessions based on Oerth i use the original maps done by Darlene and the books from the boxed World of Greyhawk set, along with such material as I have that i created specifically for my own campaign that might apply.

A cut-off at 1985 suffices quite well from my POV

Actually, there are some things in 2E that aren't bad to add to your OAD&D campaign, IMO.

Canon can be over-rated. If something outside such bounds makes your game better, then use it.

Cheers,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dead
Dear Gary,

How many years did you run your Greyhawk campaign?

From 1972 through 1985, rather sporadically after 1981. I still play it now and again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dead
Could you please list all the worlds/dimensions that players interacted with? Murlynd obviously travelled to a Wild West world (was this just Earth?) and, apparently, there was cross-overs to Rob Kuntz's campaign setting.

Good grief! I haven't the memory for that as most of such play was winged by me--such as Robilar's adventures in the City of Brass. We did WWII, modern city, and a bit of wild west as you note. SF action was common, and my players loved to go to the Carabas of the "Planet of Adventure," Tchai IIRR, to fight with the Dirdir.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dead
Did the crashed space craft in "S3: Expedition to the Barriar Peaks" really take place in your own campaign?

sure enough, as my players were involved in the testing of the scenario

Quote:
Originally Posted by dead
Were there a lot of genre cross-overs in the original GH?

Thanks.

About one session in every 12 would involve somethingfrom outside the fantasy genre. that was enough to keep things from getting too staid.

Cheers,
Gary

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldschooler
OH-erth, orth, erth or oith? How do you usually pronounce many Greyhawk terms? I usually concider the "O" to be silent (Oeridian being pronounced er-RID-eean). But then, I didn't create the world, I just like to use it

Say it as "Oi-th" as if you were from Brooklyn, and that's the way I pronounce it. That annoys all who take a fantasy world far too seriously <stick out tongue>

Heh,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldschooler
Three questions, each spaced a bit so as not to strain the brain too much...

I like your pronounciation of Oerth, sounds like Bugs Bunny. What about a couple of other commonly confusing names: Oeridian and Flanaess? I usually pronounced them er-RIDI-an and flan-ESS, how's about you?

Close enough
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zudrak
Okay, here's my question:
When Francois drafted his OA manuscripts, was it in his plans (or yours) to create a continent on Oerth where the "orient" would exist or was he seeking to create a new continent/setting to be created all on its own? I was wondering if Kara-Tur (which was set on Oerth originally, IIRC, because I set it east of Oerik across the Solnor Ocean from the North Province) was an idea created by you, Francois, or Zeb Cook.

Thanks again for creating a fantastic hobby.

Michael / Zudrak

Well Michael...

Francois had a map of a continent and some islands to the east, and they were going to be added. The "Orient" wes actually to be past them, closer to the West Coast of Oerik.

Zeb took advantage of my being absolutely engrossed in the business affairs of TSR at the time--I was doing my best to keep the company from being forced into receivership, and i succeeded--but he managed to sink Francois' material and use only his own during that time.

BTW, Len Lakofka had an eastern continental addition as well as the Lendore Isles, so what Iplanned to so was incorporate Francois' and Len's maps with Oerik, complete the lower continent below it, and have a real globe

So much for plans.

Cheers,
Gary
 
 
 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Mouser
Colonel,

I was wondering how common adventures in places besides the City of Greyhawk and its surrounding environs were in your original campaign. IIRC, you have mentioned that Hommlet was designed as a "base" to introduce new characters to the campaign but what about PC's going on trecks across the Flanaess? For example, did anyone ever make it over to Zeif, Ket or the other more westerly realms or were things pretty much centralized around the Nyr Dyv?

Gray Mouser

Howdy Gray Mouser!

You hear about the movement in Wisconsin to allow the shooting of feral felines?

To your question: there was a good deal of outdoor adventuring, and robilar, Terik, and Tenser traveled all the way from my world's equivelent of China back to the city of Greyhawk, half the globe's circumference distant.

When I switched to Oerik as the main continent, most of the putdoor adventuring took place to the east and up north around the big lakes. A couple of years back a group from Tennessee visited, and i designed an adventure for them that would indeed take them from Greyhawk all the way west of Zeif, looking for a haunted city there. After eight hours they's not made it much further that Rel mord, so that was the end of the adventure. Pity...
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Mouser
That is too bad about the Tennessee group. I think it owuld be great fun to go on a "walking tour" of the Flanaess. Did they bring their own PC's or roll some up when they got their? Did they start at 1st level or did you let them start higher due to toughness of encounters?

It was indeed a shame thy chaps didn't return as that promisted when they left. They brought their own PCs of around 8th level, but one lost a couple of levels to some wights, so they stopped in Rel Mord to have the clerics there restore them.

BTW, I suspect that they didn't come back because their van caught fire and was totally destroyed on the way home. They did save their dice.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jokamachi
As for other matters, I need to bounce a couple Greyhawk questions off you. First off, what's up with the Egg of Coot? Can you give us the insider's story on that one? No one has provided a satisfactory answer as to who or what it is.

the Egg of coot is a creation of Dave Arneson's. He has stated that it was drawn from the name of Gregg Scott, a chap who disdained fantasy as "unmanly"--as opposed to the micro-scale armored fighting vehicles he manufactured and purveyed <laughing>

Quote:
Originally Posted by jokamachi
Also, I heard that in your original Greyhawk campaign the island of Japan was located on Oerth. Where exactly was it located? Anywhere near the Flanaess? How about Aquaria?

That is so, but Oerik was not as as it is, rather it was North America with a Western European flavor east of the Mississippi and other cultures to the west of it. So Japan was where it is on earth
 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by haakon1
I've been wondering something since the good old '80s . . . it seems to me that your map of Greyhawk and Tolkien's map of Middle Earth hook up to each other. Your Sea of Dust backs up nicely into his Nurn and Mordor, with your Sulhaut Mountains becoming his Ered Lithui (Ash Mountains), and your little lake and river on the Dry Steppes (in 3e labelled Lake Udrukankar and the Rumikadath River) fitting in nicely a tributary to the Sea of Rhun.

Is that just me, or did you or someone at TSR intend them to fit together?

There is absolutely no connection. I did the two maps on hex paper of the maximum sixe that TSR's printers could manage at the time, free-handing the work so as to get in all the cultural types I thought would make for an interesting campaign 

Cheers,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by haakon1
Have you read later versions of Greyhawk? If so, do you like any of that work? I think Erik Mona, the current editor of Dungeon and prime author of the Living Greyhawk Gazeteer, does an excellent job with Greyhawk, though I wish he'd have thrown out more of the non-Gygax accretions to the setting (especially the Greyhawk Wars silliness).

No, nor do i plan to, as the current version of the world setting it quite the opposite of what i created it for--an open world for DMs to freely adapt to their campaign needs.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infernal Teddy
Hi Gary, greets from Germany! I know this has probably been asked before, but I hope you'll still answer this short question...

In Dragon 315 Jim Ward talks about the origins of the Greyhawk setting, and is quoted as having said: "He had the whole world mapped out". Does this mean you have material about the rest of Oerth hidden in your basement? if yes, is there any chance in hell of us seeing this material?

Yours, The Infernal Teddy

Yes, I had a sketch map of the remainder of the globe, to the east, west, north and south of Oerik.
I had planned to have Len Lakofka and Francois Marcela Froideval do parts of the entire world, but that was coming after 1985.

So as far as things now stand, there is no remainder of the WoG beyond the original two maps i did.

Cheers,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by haakon1
Not to contradict Gary, but I think Roger Moore or Erik Mona somehow found that map, or something similar.
It was a map of Oerth that included countries like "Erypt" and I think "Zindia".
I can't remember who they got it from, but apparently it survived the barbarian hordes of She Who Is Only Occassionally Named.

It was discussed years ago (1996-1999 era) on the old AOL discussion board about Greyhawk. Erik got his job with WOTC and now Paizo by being a superfan on that board . . .

Do not be misled! that map is spurious and has nothing to do with any creative addition to the Oerth that I planned.

the claim was bandied about but no one making it ever asked for verification from me.

I have frequently denied its authenticity on public boards.

Gary
 
 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Mouser
...

BTW, I have a question for you regarding the World of Greyhawk setting. I was just perusing the encounter tables in the glossography recently and noticed that a fait amount of them include results for "Men, Cavemen" (areas such as Blackmoor, Sterich, Valley of the Mage, the Barrier Peacks, Crystalmist Mountains and Jotens, the Clatspur Range and Yatil Mountains, the Hellfurnaces) and even a "Use Plestocine Conditions Encounter Table" (Sulhaut Mountains).

Did you envisions these as the WoGH's "Lost World" type areas (particularly the Sulhauts)? I noticed they were fairly spread out on the map so it could also have been simply considering the Cavemen as a less developed subset of humans. Also, did any of the OC's in your campaign ever encounter their Neanderthal brethren or any Plestocine creatures in the WoGH proper (not, for instance, in Isle of the Ape)?

Gray Mouser

Yes, I had the Sulhaut Mountains as the "Lost world" setting in my compaign, although we never did much of anything there as events kept the PCs bust elsewhere. (I wanted to do something fun with the 'Rift as well, but never got there. when i was using the pre-WoG map for my world setting the West Coast of North america was the Plestocine region inhabited by savage cavemen and their contemporary fauna.

Otherwise, I did consider that subhuman cavemen were a not uncommon peril to encounter in remote wildernedd areas

Cheers,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwright
...

That brings me to a couple of questions -

First a setting question - I have always loved Greyhawk and am under the impression that as originally conceived it was somewhat of an alternate Earth, like a reversed European continent attached to an Asian continent. Was this the case or was it meant to be a completely different world from the start? I am just now looking into LA and it seems the world setting here is also Earth-but-different, and I am wondering if the intentions are similar to the original envisionment of the WOG.

While I did mix cultures of earth-like sort, I did not plan Oerth as an actual alternate earth as did for the "Aerth" of the Mythus FRPG or Learth of the LA game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwright
Later influences on Greyhawk material in 2e and 3e gave names to lots of the specific regions that didn't have names on the original folio or box set editions - "Mistmarsh" was the name given, probably by Sargent or Moore, to the wetlands area around these rivers SE of Greyhawk. One of the things I loved about Greyhawk was that as a published setting it wasn't so specific and allowed us to find our own heroes and villains - I'll be honest I never heard the names Mordenkainen (sorry Gary <frown> ) till I was much older and so they weren't a part of my teenage Greyhawk campaigns.

As I suspected...nothing of the actual world I devised for DMs<devious>
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by haakon1
Just 'cause our world is not a perfect world, why can't WoG be? <smile>

How about:

Too many cooks spoil the broth. <EEK!> <nervous laugh> <paranoid>
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Mouser
Hmm,, but that would put it right near....

Hey, Colonel, a question for you regarding your recall of Greyhawkian geography! How good is your recall of the details of Oerth (the Flanaess but also of other portions)? I know it's been a long time since you were involved with the official setting but given your length of play in Oerth and the constant questions about it do you find recalling geography easy without recourse to the maps?

Gray Mouser

Fortunately, I have the maps, although one is beginning to fall apart... <mad>

Cheers,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zudrak
Like Coke Classic and C2, we'd have Greyhawk Classic and Greyhawk2?

One of the greatest marketing blunders in history made good before it was too late...

The consumer audiences in question are somewhat disproportionate, of course 

Quote:
As much as I would like to see Greyhawk reunited with EGG, why would EGG want to pay for an IP that was originally his to begin with? It's awfully close to IP kidnapping. That of course is just my opinion. YMMV. 

As soon as CZ: Yggsburgh arrives at my FLGS, I will continue to stick with my 1985 GH material and add in CZ there, per Gary's suggestions on location. I'll continue augmenting the Dungeon magazine GH material as I have since restarting my campaign in 2000. I simply change it to 576 CY and throw away the bits and pieces that don't fit.

The outlay and effort for the return are likely the major factors. Of course, I'd also hate to distress a lot of Hawkers too.

Cheers,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by haakon1
What's even worse is destruction by the publisher of the campaign base that the PC's very well could have succeeded in saving . . .

What I have in mind is the 2E version of Greyhawk, "From the Ashes", in which it was assumed the Giants of G123 succeeded in conquering and massacring Sterich and Geoff. Our party killed Lloth and WON the war to save our homelands -- took us two years of gaming, but we did it, the last mission before we retired our few surviving characters and broke up as a gaming group. I'm still pissed at TSR 13 years later for saying we failed. Orc-heads! <mad>

Lesson: Never, ever "update" a campaign setting.

That is the result of someone in authority at the publisher not understanding the material, not caring, and just bulling ahead regardless of the audience.

The World of Greyhawk setting was crafted to allow for individualization by DMs, of course, and so was as non-specific and vague in places where the DM was likely to have created his own material. I did intend to expand the world and do some area specifric modules--mostly at the edges of the Flanaess, but that wasn't to be...

Cheers,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by haakon1
I like the not-so-filled in aspect of Greyhawk.
In particular, it's amusing to speculate about what really goes on in the Land of Black Ice, the Sea of Dust, the Valley of the Mage, etc.
Much more medieval for it to be unknown.

Obviously I agree with that approach <big grin>

Cheers,
Gary

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edena_of_Neith
...

...

Gary, what was the climate of the Flanaess and Hempmonaland like, during the latter times of the Suel Imperium and Baklunish Empire?
And what was the climate of the Baklunish Empire, like, during that time?
Certainly it was 2 degrees F. warmer and average annual rainfall was two inches greater. The warmer climate and additional rainfall enabled the production of more food crops to support larger populations, more armed troops.

Or maybe it was the opposire 

Cheers,
Gary
 

Well...

How about:

"Gord and Elvis sighted gambling in Las Vegas"?

"Gord is a victim of alien abduction"?

I...can't...go..on...

Gary
 

Yuletide Greetings

Happy to discuss military miniatures anytime...same for military history.

As for Gord, he isn't at all like you suppose

Christmas cheer,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by airwalkrr
Hey Gary, I've got a question about your Gord the Rogue novels. Gellor was one of my favorite characters in Saga of Old City, but unfortunately I don't have a copy of the book anymore. I seem to remember him being a bard. Anyway, what were his origins (i.e. birthplace) and where did he head off to after parting ways with Gord? I've just finished Sea of Dust (the 3rd I believe) so maybe Gellor comes back, but I'm curious.

Happy Christmas

Likely I did have notes with that sort of detail, and perhaps they still exist somewhere in the mountains of books, magazines, and papers spread from attic to basement in this house... the older the work in question, the more deeply buried the clues regarding it <nervous laugh>

Not many authors make extensive notes regarding supporting characters, or about anything else that doesn't fit into the immediate story to be told, for such material tends to become set in stone and limit the scope of possibilities for new tales. (I once asked Fritz Leiber for details of Pulg and got much the same sort of reply as I make above, and he added that his fans knew more about Lankhmar than he did 

Yuletide best wishes,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by airwalkrr
Thanks anyway, Gary. I've always liked using Gellor in my home campaigns. I suppose I'll just come up with his background myself.
Seems to me like he'd have a lot of friends in Urnst so he's probably from there.

Happy Christmas

Indeed, that is very much the sort of thing I wished to encourage with the WoG setting--DM adapatation of the material to suit the campaign being run!

Yuletide best wishes,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan P. Mahney
Hi Gary,

I've just been reading some old issues of The Dragon, and getting into the serialised novel The Gnome Cache, only to find that it disappears into the ether, unfinished! Assuming that you are the Garrison Ernst to which the tale is credited (who else could it be with such an idiosyncratic style?), what happened to the rest of the story? Why didn't it appear in The Dragon? How does it relate to Oerth - official or not? And, why were those giant toad riding folk chasing that dwarf? So many unanswered questions!

- Nathan P. Mahney -

Howdy!

Garrison Ernst, a/k/a Ernst Grimbold here.

Tim Kask didn't like the story of the Gnome Cache, so he dropped it. No biggie as far as I was concerned. the yarn was only my second attempt at writing a novel, and I wasn'f all that happy with what I had produced. The story was loosely based on the world of Greyhawk, but the adventures were not drawn from any actual play of D&D.

The giant toads are the steeds of the followers of Wastri, the Hopping Prophet, certainly of Oerth and the pantheon of the Flanaess.

As for the conclusion, I can not recall where I had the tale headed, and the ms. for the story is missing--possiblly buried amongst stored documents here, otherwise truly lost.

Cheers,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MerricB
G'day, Gary!

Poor little Obmi? Yep - you're definitely a DM. 

By that stage, was Obmi a recurring villain for your players?
I seem to remember you writing in Dragon magazine that Obmi had turned up before with some unusual (and frustrating) device.

Cheers!

Heh...

Well, yes! Obmi originally was encountered in the dungeons of Greyhawk Castle. He will appear in the Castle Zagyg module series. Obmi appered with one KEEK, an evil elf, in the Gord the Rogue series...and son Luke unknowingly played out one of the novels' scenes, just as I had envisioned it <big grin>

Cheers,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Drake
Hi Gary, I was wondering, what prompted you to name the Greyhawk campaign Greyhawk?
Does it have any particular signifigance or did it just sound "right" to you at the time?

A lot of far-ranging questions there...

I settled on Greyhawk because I happened to admire Chief Blackhawk of the Sac & Fox Indians that inhabited and fought the settlers in this area.
As hawking was a much beloved medieval hunting form I did indeed consider the name as fitting.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan P. Mahney
So why Greyhawk, and not Grayhawk? Why the unpatriotic support of spelling from across the pond?

Why not be different? <stick out tongue>

Actually, it just seemed better to spell it that way at the time... <big grin>

Cheers,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orius
...

For those who aren't familiar with the early Greyhawk material, well, this is how I sort of view the matter as a more or less neutral bystander looking at it from the outside:

First, there is the original campaign as run by Gary, Rob and others. This is where the world itself was first developed, and some of the material found its way into the game in the days of 1e.

I began the campaign world, had Rob join as co-Dm when the adventuring group size was generally over 12 and rather overwhealming. Thus the dungeons were an an amalgamation of his and mine, but all the rest of Greyhawk was my sole creaation...with inspirational input from many players, of course <big grin>

Quote:
Then there's the official setting as published. The official setting isn't really the same thing as Gary's setting, the way I understand, the published setting started off when he presented elements of his own campaign for DMs to use as their own, though there was also stuff like the Rogue's Gallery that did not accurately reflect the original Greyhawk, but still became the basis for official material. After Gary left TSR, other people wrote material for the setting of varying quality.

As I have related elsewhere, my original setting for Greyhawk was basicaly the earth, and the City of Greyhawk was about where Chicago is, Dyvers on the shore northwards where Milwaukee stands. Of course as my campaign world was active, had many players, I did not wish to detail it, so I created Aerth, the continent of Oerick, and all that went with it for general use by other DMs. I found I liked it so well that I switched my group's play to the World of Greyhawk soon after I had finished the maps and manuscript.

Cheers,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertsconley
I am long time gamer (since 1978) and first want to thanks for coming up with D&D which has consumed so much of free time.

My question is that I read that your original Greyhawk campaign was based on a map of North America. If so I am wondering how you arranged things, like where was the City of Greyhawk.

Thanks
Rob Conley

Yuppers. North America and the rest of the globe, in fact. the West coast was a land of dinosaurs and cave men...  Greyhawk was about where Chicago is, and Dyvers was located around where Milwaukee is.

Cheers,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thulcondar
I am a great fan of the "From the Sorceror's Scroll" articles from the pages of Dragon magazine in the early 1980's, which detailed the movements of armies and such across the Flanaess. They were obviously written with the mind of a miniatures gamer. I was just wondering if any of the battles described therein were ever played out by the local crew up there in LG?

Sadly, no. As a sort of military historian, board and tabletop wargamer, I used my imagation only to create those accounts.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DestroyYouAlot
Hi, Gary. I've actually had question or two I've been dying to ask.

Ed Greenwood: What's your opinion of his original work on the Forgotten Realms - i.e., the setting up until the point that TSR bought it (summed up in the "grey box" campaign set)? And, had things gone differently (i.e., had you stayed with the company and remained with a modicum of control), would you have purchased/licensed a new campaign world, whether his or another one?

I have insufficient knowledge of Forgotten Realms to comment.

Had I remained in creative control of the D&D game line at TSR one of the projects I planned was the complete development of of the Oerth world setting, and production of source nodules for the various states and outstanding featires of the Flanaess--such as the Roft Canyon, the Sea of Dust, etc.

That being the case, I doubt that TSR would have been interested in publishing and supporting another world setting--rather akin to creating and publishing another FRPG, so a waste of resources.

Cheers,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by haakon1
Do you consider the original Greyhawk/Lake Geneva/whatever you call it campaign still "active"? If so, is it on a particular date?

My campaigns (3 of them, all very slow moving, over e-mail, in Vermont once every few years, and in Seattle a few times a year) are all in spring 588 CY. Two groups are in Bissel, one in the wilderness headed for Dantredun, Blackmoor.

Another bit of curiosity: did you and Arneson ever play in each others' campaigns?

No.

As a matter of fact I ceased the campaign in 1985 when I severed all times with TSR.

I have used it on occasion since, of course, but nor for regular, ongoing play.

Cheers,
Gary

<place this one at Hardby, trim. Dyvers is done>
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thulcondar
Can you give any anecdotes about the role that the cities of Dyvers and Hardby played in the original campaign (or their possible analogues, given the changes from the "alternate North America" setting to the published "World of Greyhawk" setting)? As in, did any of the old-time players such as Robilar et al venture to them, or was the action mostly settled around the city of Greyhawk itself?

There was some adventuring in Dyvers, and in the pre-WoG campaign that city was the same as that detailed in the Greyhawk folio. that applies to Hardby as well...although the players avoided the place as they found the Amazonian-types running it as hot to their adventuring taste.

Cheers,
Gary

I must say that the Despotrix of Hardby is not hot 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Elton
Hardby isn't in any of my Greyhawk materials (The Adventure Begins, Player's Guide, Living Greyhawk Gazzateer). In what product can I find Harby?

Elton.

The original 1980s version of the WoG.

Cheers,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypersmurf
The same cannot be said, of course, of all Hardbyites...

-Hyp.

Of course not. I always had plenty of them as most shapely and good looking...if rather domineering and bossy/ think of today;s feminists 

Cheers,
Gary
 

As for tha Amazonian-type women of Hardby, the answers given above to the question are suitable...or one might make up one's own sort based on the campaign.

Remember that the milieu is one where violence is common, people generally unprotected save by their own efforts, so size, strength, and aggressiveness, not to mention armor, weapons, and skull in using the latter are major considerations 

Cheers,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by haakon1
All of them, I believe. Look under Wild Coast or Greyhawk City (which sadly, in later versions has taken over the Despotrix).

I believe it was also covered in an issue of Dungeon, but I seem to have misplaced it in a special place as it was more important than the run-of-the-mill issues. 
I believe it had a green cover, but I can't find mine.

Whatever...

The original presentation of Hardby is found only in the original World of Greyhawk products 

Cheers,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Col_Pladoh
Whatever...

The original presentation of Hardby is found only in the original World of Greyhawk products 

Cheers,
Gary
 

True. Having actually looked in the original sources now (well, the 1983 box set anyhow), I'd correct my original advice to look under Greyhawk City and the Wild Coast to find info on Hardby by adding that one should also look up Woolly Bay.

I think I've found all the references to Hardby . . . If you'll indulge me in quoting it, I think it's a good illustration of how "real" Greyhawk was written, for those who may not have seen your true version, only later pale copies. Note, gentle readers, how it hints at its depth without telling you everything, and of how it's written as an in-world geography lesson rather than being too gamerish.

.............................................

Woolly Bay: The wag who named this terminus of the Sea of Gearnat and made it stick is lost to history, but the appellation is not inappropriate. The small cogs which move up and down the Wild Coast are as often pirate as merchant. Considerable traffic moves through the area, from the west and from Greyhawk. Shipping rounds the Pomarj or Onnwal to and from the Sea of Gearnat, going east or west to or from Woolly Bay. Elredd, Fax, Safeton, and Hardby are all port towns, and most vessels can negotiate the Selitan to Greyhawk City, and the lighter craft can venture all the way to the Nyr Dyv beyond. Some unscrupulous captains still put in at the humanoid-controlled town of Highport to trade.

Greyhawk, Free City of (just the Hardby-related bits):
. . . This petty noble soon became quite rich and powerful and assumed the title Landgraf of Selintan. Greyhawk and the power of the new Landgraf grew rapidly thereafter, and his son and heir, Ganz, was wed to the daughter of the Gynarch (Despotrix) of Hardby, a sorceress of no small repute. Their descendents ruled a growing domain which rose to considerable heights c. 375 CY under the rule of Zagig Yragerne (the so-called Mad Archmage). It was Zagig who built the sprawling Castle Greyhawk (now a ruin) . . . In 498 CY it was declared a free and independent city, ruling a territory from Hardby on the Woolly Bay to the Nyr Dyv, between the eastern folds of the Cairn Hills and the Gnarley Forest, including much of what is now considered the northern Wild Coast region. These holdings have been lost over the intervening decades . . . The Despotrix of Hardby now pays tribute to Greyhawk to avoid being absorbed into the growing city state once again.

Wild Coast:
The western shores of the Sea of Gearnat have long been called the Wild Coast, for the region has been a haven for malcontents, dissidents, demi-humans, humanoids, and outcasts from other states. It is a fair but not particularly fertile area -- rolling countrside interspersed with woodlands, fens, and scattered clusters of dwellings. Parts of the Gnarley Forest, all of the Welkwood east of the Jewel River, and Suss Forest are considered as being in this region. The Wild Coast remains a free territory comprised of petty nobles, robber barons, guildheld towns, fishing and forest villages, freebooters, mercenaries, and displaced persons of all sorts. This is due to the remote and isolated position it holds, its lack of resources, and the fact that it has never been a desirable position strategically. Portions of the area have been under the control of Celene, the Prince of Ulek, the Gynarch of Hardby, and the Free City of Greyhawk at various times. The inhabitants, being of a mind otherwise, have always managed to regain their freedom. 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by haakon1

I think I've found all the references to Hardby . . . If you'll indulge me in quoting it, ...

Well done!

I do believe that you found all the references to Hardby.

Cheers,
Gary

Quote:
Originally Posted by erc1971
[Quote: Philotomy Jurament

I HATED that module (Castle Greyhawk). I was overseas when it came out, but I special-ordered it based on the title. When it arrived, I started reading and couldn't believe it. They'd turned Castle Greyhawk, the premier dungeon of the setting, into a joke. Now, I have nothing against humorous dungeons, but to have a whole thing be a joke was too much. I suppose I was expecting something else, so the disappointment was intense. In any case, between Castle Greyhawk and modules like "Puppets," "Childs Play," and "Gargoyle" it seemed to me that TSR was sending a pretty un-subtle message, which was "Greyhawk is a joke."

Maybe I'm reading too much into that, I don't know. I do know that I quit buying TSR's Greyhawk material. ]
 

I feel the exact same way. Shortly after Gary left TSR, the came out with "From the Ashes". Our whole gaming group saw it as a way to destroy everything Gary put into the world, and re-do it in thier vision.

To this day, Greyhawk is by far my favorite fantasy setting (for many many reasons), and I still play using the original Greyhawk setting, and the revised version that came in the boxed set (of which, I laminated the maps, and affixed them to the wall of my gaming room). In fact, I am currently running a C&C game set in Greyhawk - the Great Kingdom is about to bring several years of uneasy peace with The Iron League to an end, starting a great war in which I will suck the PC's into, mwhahahaha!

Eric

Lorraine Williams wished to belittle me because I dared to disagree with her business plans for TSR, so she gave some evidentally envious designers the latitude to totally mess up the WoG. IMO their efforts showed how lacking they were. I named the abortive work "From the Asses," which didn't endear me to the lot. Of course, that made not a jot of difference to me.

Gary
 

[QUOTE=erc1971]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Col_Pladoh

"From the Asses" ROFLMAO 

That name is going to be used in reference to that product for the rest of my life!

Eric

If so, you'll be as popular as I am in certain quarters...much the same as a Kosher butcher at a Hindu picnic 

Gary
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Mouser
Hey Colonel, I was just wondering about the WoGH setting. I'm sure we all have our favorite parts of the Flanaess, around which we either base our Oerth campaigns or to which we just have a certain attraction (I'm rather partial to the Free City of Greyhawk, Furyondy, as well as some of the western lands, such as Zeif, not to mention finding the Valley of the Mage an interesting place for potential adevntures). My question is this: Besides the City of Greyhawk, what other lands figured prominantly in your campaign? I know that the campaign figured largely around Greyhawk and that there were trips to China and, IIRC, Hempmonoland (or its equivalent) but did any of the players ever make it to places such as Ket, the Bandit Kingdoms, the Great Kingdom, Dyvers, etc.? Were there any major NPC's from such places that interacted with the players on a normal, or memorable, basis?

Gray Mouser

Hi Again!

Most of the overland travel went north and west of Greyhawk--including the Ulek States, the Vesve Forest, Shield Lands, and Bandit Kingdoms. That and adventuring in the Bright Desert and Wild Coast was about it, although some of the PCs in later years ventured into the east, but not much beyond Idee in the Great Kingdom. One party did range through the far East's cold lands, and another was journeting through the western lands aiming for the coast of Ket. Mordenkainen was in the lands of the Wolf Nomads, recruited a troop of horse archers there. I brought in no NPCs from East or West as there were plenty from the central and north.

Cheers,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcas
I think Mr. Fisher was asking about the World of Greyhawk boxed set.

One would think that the boxed set could remain in print as a "bare-bones" guide to the campaign, then additional detail added through campaign gazetteers or through adventure modules.

You are most likely correct, but what I said applies to the WoG as well as to the game per se. In truth I had plans to create material detailing the various states and major terrain features of the world setting, as well as completing the world with a second boxed set.

Cheers,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by T. Foster

Hi Gary,

There are a handful of references in your later-era AD&D writing to space travel -- in the description of Celestian in the WoG, in some notes in Dragon articles, and perhaps a reference or two in spell or item descriptions in UA -- that were never developed and I'm curious what you envisioned this aspect of the game being like. How, for instance, would the play-experience of traveling to different planets have differed from traveling to different planes? How would you have avoided a 'sci-fi' feeling (or is that something you would have embraced)? Was this notion inspired by Jack Vance's story "Morreion" (the same story that gave us IOUN stones)? How close would a Gygax "D&D in space" supplement have looked to TSR's "Spelljammer" ?

Short answer:

The main moon of Oerth was a viable sphere, although none of my players ever made it there. Mars and Venus were likewise habitable ala ERB. Getting to those places was via portal or special spells that I never did manage to ger around to detailing.

For real space travel i intended to do a Science Fantasy genre spinoff of AD&D, absolutely nothing similar to Spelljammer.

When I designed the DJ system, and later the LA game, I made certain to have the mechanics such as to be compatable with genre additions to the fantasy one. We are about to finish the Lejendary AsteRogues Fantastical Science rules later this year. Avatars from different genres can indeed become at home in new settings.

Cheerio,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edena_of_Neith
Hey there, Mr. Gygax. Edena_of_Neith here.

I am made to understand you did not approve of the From the Ashes Boxed Set, and the destruction of the Flanaess that resulted in the Greyhawk Wars. Is this true?
If you had decided to create a 'Greyhawk Wars' scenario, how would your 'Greyhawk Wars' have gone? (If they had gone at all ...) Would Acererak have become involved?

Decreeing major wars in the Flanaess would have been quite contrary to the design philosophy behind the WoG. It was a template for use by DMs to use in developing their own campaigns based in the milieu. The various alliances and hostilities were set forth, but where they went was meant for each DM to determine as suited his own creative application of the base information.

That said, I did indeed find the concept of FtA quite inappropriate, but typical of TSR at the time. Creatively speaking, I do not believe they could find their butt with both hands.

Cheers,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by haakon1
Indeed. That's why I refer to it as "From the As*es".

I was not going to mention it, but that makes two of us 

Cheerio,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasqueton
Gary,

In the 1980s version of the World of Greyhawk books, some of the shield devices on the inside cover have a symbol I can't identify. The symbol is a diamond (square standing on its corner) with an X through it. The realm shields I can see it on are: Onnwall, Idee, Lordship of the Isles, County of Sunndi, and City of Irongate. (See the attachment below.)

I can't find this symbol, or reference to it, in the books (even the section on Oerth runes). Can you shed some light on this symbol?

Quasqueton

Happy to oblige 

The charge is a heraldric knot, the gray-black color indicating iron, and those armorial bearings showing the charge are members of the Iron League.

With the sad news of Fred Saberhagen's passing fresh in my mind, I must say that the Great Kingdom I pictured as akin to John Ominer's Empire of the East.

Cheers,
Gary

Comments
Up you go!
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PapersAndPaychecks
Those additions to Greyhawk might look like chocolate, but they certainly don't taste like it!

What can I say other than... 

Cheers,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tewligan
Perhaps their ship crashed in...THE BARRIER PEAKS! Bum bum BUM!!!

I believe that such a starship would need to be larger than the vessel that ended up in the Barrier Peaks.
I viable breeding population would need at least 500 or so individuals methinks.

Cheerio,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarek
IIRC, the intro to Expedition does say that this is only one module of the spacecraft in question... who knows where others might have landed?

Perhaps one crash landed, with robots and crew more or less intact, in the mysterious realms bordering the Black Ice, and another, larger segment with stasis pods containing "unclassified organisms" disappeared into the dark depths of the Hepmonaland jungle...

Plausible, assuming that the Illithids were the makers and crew of the starship.
Of course they could have been collecting other lofe forms in their voyage through the galaxy...looking for more nutrious brains perhaps... 

Cheers,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesM
You are very kind to place me in the same category as yourself. My younger self would have been ecstatic to have been told by the creator of D&D to call him Gary

So long as you don't mind the steady stream of questions, I have another for you.

I still consider the original World of Greyhawk Fantasy World Setting folio to have been one of the most evocative products ever produced for the game. It's a gem of verbal economy: in just 32 pages you laid out an entire continent for adventure, providing just enough detail to take some of the load off the beleaguered DM's shoulders, while still providing plenty of room for individualization and extemporaneous improvisation. It's a brilliant companion piece to Advanced Dungeons & Dragons and represents a style of roleplaying game writing -- and publishing -- that has largely vanished from the earth.

My question is this: had you remained at TSR, would you have developed the setting further through gaming products (other than adventure modules, that is) or would it have only received sparse support, such as the larger boxed version of the folio? I ask because I can't help but think that roleplaying games took a wrong turn sometime in the mid-80s, as setting came to dominate the product lines, which is to say setting as a pursuit unto itself rather than as a "prop" for the Dungeon Master. The World of Greyhawk, in hindsight, is a rather empowering product for the DM, which is probably why I always liked it. Using it, I felt free to spin my own yarns with my players and not fret over minutiae not of my creation. Was this your intention?

Thanks again.

Heh,

You certainly understand my aim when writing the World of Greyhawk

To be succinct, I had thought that s series of sourcebooklets that dealt with the most interesting and exciting aspects of each state/area would be desirable to the fans. Eventually the whole os the continent and islands could be covered thus, but gamers would want and need only that booklet or booklets that pertained to their core campaign.

Those I would have begun writing around the time the remainder of Oerth was being mapped and detailed.

Cheerio,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesM
Ah, so there was a plan to map and detail the rest of Oerth as well? That might well explain my dim recollection of hearing of "Oriental" lands for the World of Greyhawk setting around the time that Oriental Adventures was being published. When said book was released, I was surprised that the setting information included within it seemed to be self-contained and without any connection to Oerth or indeed any other fantasy setting.

'Tis a pity you were never afforded the opportunity to produce more material to flesh out Oerth fully.
Yes indeed, and I planned to invite Len Lakofka and Francois Froideval to assist me in the design of the whole planet Oerth. Zeb Cook tossed out Francois' OA material in favor of his own, IMO quite inferior, material. Sadly, I was too invoved in saving TSR from bancruptcy at the time to correct that ill-advised decision, so there was indeed no link to the WoG setting.

There were a whole slew of AD&D projects I planned, including the revised edition. Such is life :\

Cheerio,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesM
Gary,

If I recall correctly, the "real" Greyhawk campaign you ran in Lake Geneva was based (at least originally) on a variant map of the North American continent, with the City of Greyhawk located more or less where Chicago now stands. (Please correct me if this is mistaken)

How much of the nomenclature of the published World of Greyhawk derives from this original campaign? That is, was there a Furyondy and a Keoland or were these things you created for the folio that TSR published?

Thanks.

You are correct about my original campaign world--I simply used existing maps of the world, or went from memory.

When I did the map for the World of Greyhawk product I made up 90% of the material on the spot...and liked it better than what I had been doing so switched my own campaign to the newly created world of Oerth. Only the places surrounding the City of Greyhawk came from my original campaign setting.

Cheerio,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesM
Fair enough. What I actually meant, though -- and the answer is probably the same at any rate -- is why did you make demihumans and demihuman states rare in the Greyhawk setting? Was this simply a consequence of their being difficult to describe in anything other than broad/stereotypical terms or was there an (for wont of a better word) "philosophical" reason for their scarcity? I'd always assumed that it was the influence of both earlier fantasy, which tended to lack demihumans altogether, and an adherence to folklore, which generally assumes that "demihumans" hide from humanity.

My apologies if this question is simply a repetition of what I asked previously.

Thanks.

The answer is related to what I said regarding the virtual impossibility of creating a completely exotic milieu for a human-like, or even an intelligent, non-human species. There is no frame of reference from which to work.

As for the demi-human, and humanoid as well, states in the Flanaess, they are relatively few because it is assumed that humans are the dominant species on the world. Were it otherwise, then one would have to deal with the creation of one or more exotic cultures and societies that I addressed previously. the locigal level limits on non-human races is also directly related to this problem.

Personally, I do not find a cobbled-up "non-human" history, culture, and society that is plainly based on humanity particularly attractive in a fantasy world setting...even if a special language is created to give the contrived work verisimilitude.

Cheerio,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burlappen
Hey! (Wow...Gary Gygax...heh)

I read something really interesting in the last Paizo produced Dragon magazine (before the rights reverted to WotC). They quoted you from a 1984 interview with Polyhedron saying:

"By the way, action takes place on Yarth, a place somewhat similar to Oerth, the setting of Greyhawk et al. It has fewer magical properties than Oerth, but more than Earth. It is not impossible that additional works will be contracted for in months to come, action being set on Yarth or perhaps another alternate world, Aerth. On Earth, magic is virtually non-existant. On Uerth, dwomers are weak, chancy things. Yarth has a sprinking of things magical, and Oerth is pure magic."

Now I am well aware of what has been done with the various D&D settings by other people, but I'm curious to go to the man himself:

What's the structure of YOUR Greyhawk cosmology? How do the different settings (Earth, Yarth, Oerth, etc.) connect?

Any more info you have on what Yarth, Aerth, and Uerth are like in contrast to Greyhawk and Earth?

I read what you wrote and was really intrigued.

What I was expounding on was a cosmology of parallel worlds to Earth, each with varying magical activity. I did not mention the technology level of those worlds or other parallel worlds in the series, but they too exist in that multiverse.

Aerth was detailed for the Dangerous Journeys game system, but not that envisioned in 1984 as a direct connection to Oerth was no longer possible. Since then I have designed the Learth, the world setting for the Lejendary Adventure FRPG. It too is separate as the Aerth is no longer my IP either. At least the baseling, Earth, remains available to all designers seeking to devise a connected series of parallel worlds 

So many game projects, so little time...

Cheerio,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesM

2. In Greyhawk, you often used alternate names for the various humanoid races, such as Euroz for orcs and Jebli for goblins. What was the origin of this practice? I always liked it and felt it contributed just enough flavor to the setting without becoming obsessive, so I'd be curious as to your rationale for having introduced these terms.

Thanks.

I created the names you mention for humanoids so as to make those of the Oerth setting more distinct and unique to the world. less folklorish if you will.

Cheers,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesM
Certainly, although I can't help but feel a slight pang of loss considering the subsequent history of the game and its various editions. As I get older, I find the feel and content of AD&D suits me very well and I think of what might have been had your revision come to pass.

To suggest another old saw...spilled milk.

As with the World of Greyhawk, there is nothing that anyone can do about the matter 

Cheerio,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Mouser
Hi Colonel, it's been quite a while since I've posted to this forum and was just reading through what I had missed. You can tell from the quote, perhaps, that it's been some time since I visited this thread.

Anyway, I've seen you make comments like he above a few times before but I have a question as to how you envisioned this to work in your home campaign. Did you envision demi-humans, for example, being native to a parallel Prime Material Plane and immigrating to Oerth at some point? Was this immigration a one time occurance in the past or is it something that can still occur? Given the rather long life spans of some elves (e.g., Grey Elves) was it possible that some of these creatures who came to Oerth in the initial wave were still alive during the playing of your campaign? Lastly, did you have an idea about when the demi-humans (and other creatures) entered Oerth? (In the Greyhawk guide it lists 5050 S.D. as the date when humanoid mercenaries were first employed. Certainly such creatures were already on Oerth for some period before this.)

Sorry for the lengthy questions 

Gray Mouser

The long questions can be answered with a short response,

How the non-human races came to Oerth was never a question in my campaign.

I had a vague notion about large gates being common in past millenia, these inter-world portals gradually decreasing in size and eventually virtually disappearing, the deities of Oerth being responsible for that.

So such gates brought the great variety of life forms to the world--along with some magical laborators monster creations of course.

In the Lejendary Adventure game's Lejendary Earth world setting all of that is basically attributed to the great wizards of Learth's lost ages.

Cheers,
gary
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Mouser
Very interesting, Colonel. If the deities of Oerth were responsible for closing the gates that may explain why there were no demihuman deities included in the WoGH. Except, of course, for Raxivort. Hmmm. Maybe not. :?

SOunds like Learth's old time mages could give those of the Bakluni and Suel a run for their money, even with the Invoked Devastation and Rain of Colorless Fire! 

Gray Mouser

Likely that. Although a few more of evil sort managed to find and pass through remaining gateways to Oerth.

Yes, the ancient Adepts of Learth could and did end up devistating not only their reptillian former slave masters but their own empires.

Cheers,
Gary
 

Fid wrote:
Gary:

Len Lakofka told me that he's going to send you a copy of an old World of Greyhawk map that he has in his archives.
Is there any chance you'd be willing to let us old-timers have a look at it?
We could quickly throw it up on a website.

There seems to be lot of interest on these boards lately about what your original (pre-Darlene) map may have looked like.
Its your call though - I don't even want Len to make a copy for me without your permission.
 

Yes, Len is going to send me a copy of the map. I can not tell from his pics if it is my work or not.

If it is not my work I'll gladly share it.

If it is something I did then I will put it into the archives that I will leave to my wife for her disposal, that being about all the wealth I have to pass on.

Cheers,
Gary

Gryphon: How often does the Greyhawk campaign meet and play nowadays?

Gygax: Not too often. A few of the original players are still left around here -- Rob Kuntz, of course, who had to move up to co-judge for a long time but by running side campaigns and so forth. I've got him back as a player. Ernie Gygax, my son, is still here. Terry Kuntz is no longer in this area regularly. Don Kaye died a few years back so he's out -- and many of the other original players have moved out of the area too. We still have some meetings -- Ward will play whenever I set it up and so forth -- so we play 3 or 4 times a year maybe.

- Interview with Gary Gygax, 1980 (citation: Grognardia)