The future of the game
What the Second Edition books will be like
by Gary Gygax

©1985 E. Gary Gygax. All rights reserved.

With the recent publication of Unearthed Arcana and now Oriental Adventures,
many of the Astute Readership, as well as
those others so benighted as not to subscribe
to these Worthy Pages, have many ques-
tions to ask about what is coming in the
future for the ADVANCED DUNGEONS
& DRAGONS-® game. Here are the plans I
have projected as of this writing. While
certain things might change over the course
of time, the overall projection should be
reasonably accurate.

A Second Edition is a major undertaking.
There are corrections to be made, parts to
be meshed, material to be deleted or
shifted, and new rules and information to
be included in such a work. The first ques-
tion, then, is when does this undertaking
begin? We anticipate starting the prelimi-
nary work in mid-1986. The scope of the
project is such that it will certainly require
two to three years to complete. When it is
finished, we will have fewer, but thicker,
tomes for your amusement and edification.
It is important to add that this task does not
preclude later supplements, changes, and
yet new editions (a Third, perhaps a Fourth
someday). The AD&D game system is vital.
It grows, changes, and develops with con-
tinuing play and fresh ideas. One day it
might attain the point where the rules can
be graven in stone, but I don’t see that
likelihood for some time.

First subject for the Learned Editors will
certainly be the Monster Manuals (I and II)
and the FIEND FOLIO® Tome. The three
books will be edited for errors and omis-
sions, re-illustrated in part, color plates
added (also useful as painting guides), and
certain entries deleted. Thereafter, all
worthwhile new monsters found in modules,
DRAGON® Magazine, etc., will be in-
serted. An index will be compiled. Frank
Mentzer is desirous of restructuring the
order in which information is given. I am
desirous of presenting creatures by region
(or plane, subterranean, and similar cate-
gorical means) so as to make the work serve
as a reasonable random encounter reference
as well. It is hoped that we will have all of
this accomplished in 1986, but do not hold
me to that as a sworn statement or promise.
Next? The Players Handbook and por-
tions of Unearthed Arcana and Oriental
Adventures, in all probability. The informa-
tion needed to be a player of the game
should be contained between the covers of
one book. We will do so! Monks as a PC
type will certainly be moved to an oriental-
themed campaign section. Assassins will be
reduced to optional status, or used only as
NPCs, as your DM decides is best for his or
her campaign. Bards will be rewritten to
allow a player to start a bard character as a
bard, and the current system will be re-
moved in toto.

Any brand-new classes? Sure. I hope to
get the mystic completed as a second sub-
class of cleric, and likewise the savant to
make a second sub-magic-user. Finally, the
new bard class will have a sub-class, the
jester
There are bound to be a few other addi-
tions to the players’ book. For instance, I
have discovered that I neglected to include a
fairly common medieval weapon in both the
Players Handbook and Unearthed Arcana
— Zounds! What slipshod research on my
part!

Rest assured that anything major will be
previewed in these pages first, unless it is so
late a development that we will be unable to
do so. I hate to say it, Understanding Read-
ers, but the new sub-classes do fall under
that heading. I just don’t have enough time
to be able to do them as quickly as is desir-
able. It is most likely that they’ll premier in
the Second Edition.

Now we have a hefty pair of tomes taken
care of, a Second Edition Players Handbook
and a Second Edition Monster Manual.
What’s next in line?

Pulling apart Unearthed Arcana and
Oriental Adventures to make up the new
book for players will automatically put the
Harried but Diligent Editors onto the track
of the Second Edition Dungeon Masters
Guide. Knowing what the new book for
players will be likely to contain gives a good
insight into what the new DM’s book will
cover. Of course the new-treatment of the
Elemental Planes, printed right here in
DRAGON Magazine some time ago, will
be there. More planar details will certainly
be included as well. Gone will be random
encounter materials and monster XP lists.
Psionics . . .a subject I sidestepped in
both commentaries on the expanded new
editions. Quite frankly, I’d like to remove
the concept from a medieval fantasy role-
playing game system and put it into a game
where it belongs — something modern or
futuristic. That is not fixed yet, and it could
go either way. The new Monster Manual
will be the key. If there is nothing about
psionics therein, then you can count on the
whole being removed from the AD&D game
system. If you find references to monsters
with such ability, then it will remain in the
Second Edition.

Now. . .the DEITIES & DEMIGODS™
Cyclopedia, recently retitled Legends &
Lore by others as a sop, or bowing to pres-
sure from those who don’t buy our products
anyway. (For those Candid Enthusiasts who
do not read between my lines, as they say, I
do not particularly approve of the retitling
of the work!) Anyway, whether it is under
one title or the other, the work will be re-
vised, expanded, and generally improved to
conform to the new high standards of the
other books in the system.

“So, Graybearded Windbag,” you say,
“What is the point of all this preamble?”
Fair enough! I’ll not take offense, merely
give you the information. Statistics on
deities are given only as a minimum guide-
line for the power of the individual in ques-
tion when he, she, or it is encountered for
whatever reason on the Prime Material
Plane. Those individuals who have had the
foresight to acquire the WORLD OF
GREYHAWK™ Fantasy Game Setting will
understand what I am (eventually) getting to.
In the above-referenced work, the various
sorts of deities are detailed in a manner that
I believe the new edition of L&L, shall we
say, should follow.

The players’ section of that work (the
Guide) gives information on what clerics
and worshipers of each deity should know
— color of robes, special interests or re-
quirements, usual location of places of
worship and type of ceremony, and so forth.
The DM’s section (the Glossography) has
the “hard data.” Standard and non-
standard powers are given, and these are
typically far greater than the material in
L&L. Additionally, the statistics of these
beings are given for DM knowledge only.
Deity powers are great, special information
is detailed regarding each, and the extra or
special spells gained by their clerics are also
stated.

If the DM considers the power of plane-
tars and solars as stated in Monster Manual
II, there can be no question as to the abili-
ties of those who command them. Statistics
must be considered in this light and as a
yardstick for deity comparison only. The
revised L&L tome must give more informa-
tion regarding clerics and followers of each
deity. A separate DM section should then
deal with the minimum powers of each
deity, along with a solid list of the standard
powers typical for each deity. Spells usable
only by such beings should be there too! Of
course, the whole is to be expanded by
inclusion of new material. An extensive
section of non-human deities should be
given, so demi-humans and humanoids are
represented. That should do nicely.
What we have, then, when all of this is
completed, is a set of four books once again:
Players Handbook, Dungeon Masters
Guide, Monster Manual, and Legends &
Lore. Each is far larger than now, but the
needed information is all under the cover of
the appropriate tome. While this plan is
seemingly fine, I foresee one special diff-
culty, so I’d better confess it to you now.
We are all what must be known as “hard
core” gamers. The four books are quite
acceptable, even a benefit, to us. But to an
uninitiated person, especially one interested
in beginning without benefit of experienced
players, it will be a big drawback. The
books will be big, and their prices will be
that too, comparatively speaking. Sure, the
new edition of Monster Manual will cost
less than all three books of creatures now
being sold —but the beginner doesn’t buy
all three. See the point? Entry to the AD&D
game system will be difficult and costly.
None of us desire a shrinking, incestuous
system. What can be done?
If Players Handbook is made to contain
only general information on generating
characters and how to play them, it be-
comes quite a small work indeed. Perhaps
with careful study and preparation, it could
be in the 128-page range. Character infor-
mation of specific nature could then be
handled in special works which detailed the
four basic sorts, with sub-classes, weapons,
armor, spells, and so on. No! Not more
books again! Why not? A one-volume edi-
tion could be offered for the adepts, while
those desiring to learn could enter by pick-
ing up but one or two small books. That is
being considered, Loyal Enthusiasts, and
you got it directly from tie. This sort of
system would also enable us to add more
information from time to time without
going through a major effort — no Ump-
teenth Edition, no new big bucks to lay out
to get the new data!

As usual, your good offices are appreci-
ated. If you have helpful advice, go ahead
and fire it off. I do not promise to reply, but
the suggestions and comments will be read
and considered as we begin this project.

Second Edition
Dear Dragon,
I am deeply concerned about the future of the
AD&D game! What about those of us who have
spent $100 plus to get where we are with the
first edition. Will they mesh together? I mean,
will I be able to use the new DM's guide with
the old player's manual?

If not, what can a devout 1st editioner do?
Will you have a way for us to trade our old
books in for credit? Will you continue to publish
1st edition books or supplements?
Gil Kuper
Powhatan, Va.
(Dragon #114)
 

For an answer to Gil's letter, we went right to
the source -- Dave (Zeb) Cook, who is the Project
Coordinator for the design and production
of the 2nd Edition of the AD&D game. Here?s
what Zeb had to say:

The AD&D game has been around for a
number of years now, and in that time a lot has
happened. A game like this doesn?t stand still: it
grows, changes, and improves. One of the
biggest objectives of the 2nd Edition is to push
the sprawling mass of rules back into one cohesive
shape. This will involve gathering some of
the material that has appeared in other books,
modules, and DRAGON® Magazine into one set
of books. At the same time, there are things we
know or feel are broken. (My pet peeves include
bards, weapon speed factors, and encumbrance.)
These areas are going to receive close
scrutiny, and many of them are going to be
changed.

However, there is no intention to change the
basics of the game! It will be the same game you
know. Ideally, yes, you should be able to use a
1st Edition Players Handbook with a 2nd Edition
Dungeon Masters Guide. It cannot be a perfect
match ? there are going to be changes ? but
we are not trying to force everyone to abandon
their old books.

I know many players have made a sizable
investment in the AD&D game and that we are
asking you to change your investment. We are
looking at ways of keeping your costs down.
Central to the current plan is to keep the core
of the game down to two books, one of player?s
information and one for the DM. Other books
would be bought by you as you wanted them,
including monsters, extra detail on different
cultures and environments, and so forth. Secondly,
TSR is looking at ways to offer you a
special deal. Many things have been discussed --
coupons, trade-ins, introductory prices, and
more. No final decision has been made yet, but
we know that something must be done in recognition
of our long-time supporters.

Our intention is to eventually replace all the
current hardbacks by 2nd Edition versions, but
this is a project that will take years. Some years
from now there will be new editions of Unearthed
Arcana, Oriental Adventures, and more,
but it is going to take time! The book you just
bought yesterday or the one you buy tomorrow
will not be immediately out of date.

The 2nd Edition is in no way an attempt to
rob you. As a designer, I want to do it because
the game needs it. It is something that must
happen if the AD&D system is going to grow
and stay exciting and lively for everyone.

Zeb Cook
(Dragon #114)

THE FORUM

There were a couple of things in #114 that
caught my eye. First of all, I read Zeb Cook?s
comments about the upcoming second edition of
the AD&D game with interest. As it stands now,
I own all the first-edition books to the game, and
most of the modules. In spite of that, I'd like to
see a revision done. Zeb mentioned bards,
weapon-speed factors, and encumbrance as
things that need fixed; I'd add psionics, the new
demi-humans in Unearthed Arcana, and double
weapon specialization to the list. Unfortunately,
the new books are going to be large (and expensive),
and there's no real way around it.

What I don't want to see is Oriental Adventures
added to the basic rule books. The culture
and feel of this game is so different, it works
better as a supplement book.

Finally, Roger Moore?s problems with impersonators
can be easily solved. Just do one of
your TSR Profiles on him, with a picture, then,
all of us faithful readers will know what he
looks like, right? (Done. -- Editor)

David Howery
Dillon, MT
(Dragon #115)
 

In response to Patrick Goodman's letter in
issue #117 concerning the "cleaning up" of the
various AD&D game books, I have the following
to say. If Mr. Goodman is upset with the current
state of the game, perhaps he (and anyone else
who feels the same way) should switch over to
the D&D® game system. Although the two
games are very similar and could be described
as semicompatible, there are 2 major differences:
complexity and flexibility, the latter of
which has made the D&D game my personal favorite.

In AD&D games, we are bombarded by literally
thousands of rules, half of which are
ignored by most DMs anyway.  This may be fine
for those perfectionists out there who strive for
the perfectly realistic game, but it sacrifices an
important part of the game: flexibility.

This brings us to the D&D game.  If you don't
like a D&D game rule, you change it without
having to worry too much about game balance.
All of those specific rules are replaced by more
broad and general ones, allowing more time for
role-playing and using less time for die-rolling.

Before all of you diehard AD&D game players
out there start thinking of me as an idiot who
doesn't know what he is talking about, let me
say this.  I have played with both systems extensively,
and 9 out of 10 times it turns out that the
AD&D DM is playing his own personal simplified
version of the game, which is usually very
unbalanced.

My basic point is this.  If your wish is to play a
game which requires the DM to do 9/10ths
of the work, fine, stick with the AD&D game.
However, if you want to have a balance of work
between the DM and players (after all, they
usually outnumber the DM 4 to 1 or
more, try the D&D game.

Bob Hughes
Schenectady. NY
(Dragon #121)
 

Patrick Goodman (DRAGON issue #117) nonwithstanding,
realism is a vital part of a fantasy
game.  It is of secondary importance to having a
good time, but that is abou tthe only thing it is
secondary to.

We do not use fantasy to "escape reality." but
merely to travel from one reality to another.  We
want the rules of D&D games to be as binding
on our characters as those rules under which
we suffer bind us.  There must be reality in any
case.  We merely specify the few rules we wish
to suspend or change.  All others remain in
effect.

The presumption in favor of reality is powerful.
Each rule we wnat to change adds that
much more confusion into the situation, making
it that much less believable (and usually less
enjoyable).

We want to use any game as a learning experience.
Any game is defined better if we can use
the knowledge gained in other fields.  While we
can hardly apply knowledge about how to
conjure demons to our daily lives, the background
information for a campaign can be used
from time to time and should therefore
be correct.

We want to bring in useful information from
our daily lives. Every DM has heard players
howl over how unrealistic a particular rule was
? and quite correctly, too. This is one of the
ways to start a fight. Everyone has had the
experience of being told his character was
unable to perform some action a hopeless wimp
ought to be able to do with the greatest of ease.
We realize the advantages of being more realistic
then. But, in all cases, we want the advantage
of knowing the rules, which are assumed to be
the rules of reality.

In net, a fantasy world is a world where all
the rules of reality are followed, except for the
very few we change. We want that world to be
realistic.

David Carl Argall
La Puente CA
(Dragon #121)
 

GARY'S NOTES

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldschooler
I had heard that at one time you were planning to make a second edition of Advanced D&D by throwing together (with a re-edit) all three monster books into one Monster Manual, and folding Unearthed Arcana and Oriental Adventures into a new Players Handbook & Dungeon Masters Guide. Is this close to the truth? I'm wondering what kinds of editing you had been thinking of. Did you personally use UA & OA a lot in your games?

That's pretty close.
The main exception is that I planned to have the OA book re-written to get in Francois Froideval's material, and it, along with a expansion of the Oerth, be a supplement to the main core of rules.

The Mm would vave been done in two volumes, A-L and M-Z more or less.

I' won't deal with the changes I'd have made as that is meaningless at this point :\

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Loincloth

Second, was there anything you REALLY wanted to do for AD&D but never got the chance?

No, there wasn't anything critical that was missed by me...other than a proper revision of the AD&D system.
Don't ask about what i would have done in that regard.
The effort of explaining is not worth it, as such is meaningless.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BOZ
i have the feeling that such a "second edition" AD&D would have gone over a lot better than the one that actually happened. 

Word.

Gary

<.>
<.>
 
 

Jerome Steelsides wrote:
This has probably been asked before (and probably many times!) but I wonder, what would 2e AD&D have looked like had you been designing it? Would it have looked like it did (pretty much 1e with some added bells and whistles, IMHO) or would it have been completely different? Or, indeed, for that matter, was there ever a plan for a second edition?

Along similar lines, what do you feel as a designer should be the longevity of a given edition of an RPG ruleset?

----

Indeed, this question has been posed to me a few times prior to this.

As a matter of fact I was planning a revised AD&D work, one that would have included most of the UA book and some new classes--Mystic, Savant, and likely a Jester.
the new work would not have been akin to 2E, although some expansion and detailing of Secondary Skills was planned.

That's all I have to say, and no, I will not go into details of anything I would have added or changed.
The game system belongs to WotC now.

Cheers,
Gary
 

Lord Mogrim wrote:
Hey,

Over the years, how often where you a player opposed to a DM? I gues I will ask the same question for you current gamming?
 

I know you have been asked the this question 105 times probably.

Thanks in advance!
 

Mog
 

From 1972 through c. 1981 I played about as much as a PC as I GMed some RPG.

From 1982 on I have GMed about 90% of the time and played a character role only about 10% of the time.

Cheers,
Gary
 

The organization of the three current Lejendary Adventure core rules books is indeed very much akin to how I would have presented the AD&D game if it were done today, but...
 

<Dogue de Bordeaux, Bordeaux Mastiff or French Mastiff or Bordeauxdog>
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogue_de_Bordeaux>
<Bordeaux was Gary's favorite vin>

DOGS

Guard dog	Medium Fighter, Large Fighter, Medium Normal	-
Hunting dog	Large Fighter, Very small Normal	-
Coursing hound	Medium Normal	50 gp
Draft dog / sled dog	Medium Normal, Large Normal	10 gp
Dog-fighting / bear-baiting dog	Small Fighter, Medium Fighter	30 gp
Food dog	Very small Normal	3 gp
Herding dog	Very small Normal, Small Normal, Medium Normal, Large Normal	20 gp
Ratter	Very small Fighter	10 gp
Collar, normal	-	3 sp
Collar, spiked	-	5 sp
Dogsled	-	50 gp

EQUIPMENT FOR CENTAURS

Leather armor/barding	315 gp
Chain armor/barding	975 gp
Plate armor/barding	2700 gp
Vest (with pockets)	5 sp
Food, merchant's meal	4 sp
Food, rich meal	4 gp
Rations, iron, 1 week	20 gp
Rations, standard, 1 week	12 gp
Horseshoe	5 cp
Shoeing, per hoof	5 sp