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The term surprise
is basically self-explanatory.
A surprised party is caught
unawares || unprepared.
In such circumstances the
non-surprised
(or less surprised)
party has an immediate advantage
which is reflected in the granting of 1 or more segments
of initiative,
during which the active
(non- or less surprised)
party can take actions 4.
A. through H.,
wholly or partially depending
on several modifying factors.
The surprise segment is
6 seconds.
Avoiding, parleying, awaiting
the action of the surprised, missile discharge, and
setting
of weapons
(typically spears
|| spearing types of pole arms) are possible.
Most spells cannot be CAST
in a single segment,
although first level magic-user/illusionist
spells are usually but 1 segment long,
as are some other spells,
and these spells are possible
to use in a surprise segment.
Other, longer casting
time spells can only be begun in the first segment of surprise.
Similarly, the distance
separating the parties may be too great to close during a single segment,
even by charging,
and melee
striking || grappling might not be possible.
However, during the surprise
segment or segments, the surprised party is unable to react in any way,
so the latter actions might
be possible.
Surprise is determined by
rolling a d6 for each party concerned, <>
modifying the result by
using the most favorable member of the party concerned,
i.e. a ranger,
surprised only on a roll of 1, will represent the whole
of a group of other character
types. Note, however, the effect of DEX
as detailed below. The same
holds for mixed types of monsters. If surprise
is indicated for both parties
concerned, the party which has lesser surprise
subtracts its result from
the result of the greater to find the number of
segments the latter are
inactive. Nonetheless, it is possible for both parties
to be surprised equally
-- with surprise thus having no effect.
Surprise is usually expressed
as a 2 in 6 chance for all parties concerned,
i.e. a
d6 is rolled with a 1 or 2 indicating surprise.
Some monsters
are more capable of surprising foes than the normal 2 in 6 probability,
and some cannot be surprised
as easily, so they have a reduced probability -- 1 in 6, 1 in 8, etc.
Each 1 of surprise equals
1 segment (six seconds) of time lost to the surprised
party,
and during the lost time
the surprising party can freely act to escape or attack or whatever.
If both parties are surprised,
then the effect is negated
or reduced:
| Surprise Dice Difference | Lost Segments |
| 0 | 0 |
| 1 | 1 (2-1, 3-2, etc.) |
| 2 | 2 (3-1,4-2, etc.) |
| 3 | 3 (4-1,5-2, etc.) |
Assume the party of characters
comes upon a monster.
They have 2 of 6 chances
to surprise,
and the monster
also has 2 in 6. A d6 is rolled for the party,
another for the monster.
Both sides could be surprised,
or either could be surprised.
This is shown on the table
below:
| Party's Die | Monster's Die | Surprise Effect |
| 3 to 6 | 3 to 6 | none |
| 1 | 1 | both surprised |
| 2 | 2 | both surprised |
| 1 or 2 | 3 to 6 | party surprised |
| 3 to 6 | 1 or 2 | monster surprised |
| 1 | 2 | party surprised |
| 2 | 1 | monster surprised |
Example:
Party A is surprised on a roll of 1 or 2, while party B is surprised only
on a roll of 1.
A rolls 2 and B rolls 1,
so A is inactive due to surprise for 1 segment.
Had B rolled a 2,
it would not have been surprised
at all,
and A would have been inactive
for 2 segments.
Example:
Party A is surprised only on a roll of 1, but party B surprises on 5
in 6 (d6, 1-5) due to its
nature or the particular set of circumstances which
the DM has noted are applicable
to this encounter. The favorable factor
normally accruing to party
A is 1, i.e., parties of this sort are normally
surprised on 1 or 2, but
this party is surprised only on a 1 -- therefore they
have an additional 1 in
6 to their favor (and not a 50% better chance).
Party B will surprise them
on 5 in 6 less 1 in 6, or 4 in 6.
Assume A rolls a 4, so it
is surprised for 4 segments unless B rolls a 1,
in which case A party's
inactive period will be only 3 segments,
or if B rolls a 2, in which
case surprisewill last for only 2 segments (4-1 = 3, 4-2 = 2).
Because the party surprised
is (relatively) inactive, the surprising party will
be able to attempt telling
blows during each segment of surprise as if the
segment were an entire round!
That is, a fighter able to attack twice
during
a normal round of combat
will be able to do so twice during each surprise
segment, so dice are rolled
for hit determination accordingly. Even if
distance prevents striking
with weapons, the discharge of arrows,
bolts or
hand-hurled weapons is permissible
at three times the normal rate
providing the weapon/missiles
are ready, otherwise at normal rates for
rounds. Once surprise segments
are over, melee proceeds normally on a
round-by-round basis.
Question: After the
surprise dice are rolled, what happens?
How does weapon speed factor
fit into this?
What was the line in the
DMG
referring to “multiple attacks” and speed factors (page 66, under Weapon
Speed Factor) about?
Answer: The first
part of the question is detailed under the initiative
section of the DMG found on page 62, with
the nonsurprised being going first.
A weapon’s speed factor
can partially negate the initiative gained by surprise when slower weapons
are used versus high-speed weapons (consult the section
on page 66 for details).
There are several allowances
in the rules for beings attacking more than once in any
given melee round and these
must be taken into consideration when
using weapon speed factors
(Rangers and Paladins
receive multiple
attacks after gaining experience
and beings of larger hit dice attack the
low hit-point creatures
in multiples). — JW
Q. If a character is looking out from a
room can a wandering monster surprise
him?
A. Merely because someone is watching
for the approach of a wandering
monster there is no certainty of it
being spotted. In addition to the fact
that there are a number of creatures
who are camouflaged or invisible,
wandering monsters may emerge
from secret doors behind or next to
the watcher or be already present
and waiting for an opportunity to
strike -- a wandering monster does
not always have to 'wander' up to a
party -- variety is the spice of DMing!
Finally,
the watcher's attention may
wander. Staring at one piece of
corridor is probably not an activity
conducive to long periods of
concentration.
(Imagine #9)
Q: I was visiting
a friend and got into one
of his AD&D
games. We met a group of
three gargoyles at an intersection,
but
we weren't allowed to swing
at them until
they took over 40 swings
at us! The DM
said we were surprised.
I've never been
that surprised. Is
this a variant?
A: No, but it sounds
like you were badly
surprised. If you check
the DMG (pg. 62,
column 1), you'll find that
each surprise
segment is treated as a
whole round for
attacks, and 12 attacks
per segment is
the rule in this case (3
gargoyles times 4
attacks each). If you rolled
a 1 and the
DM a 6, they would have
had 5 surprise
segments and could have
gotten in a total
of 60 attacks -- assuming
that they
didn't have to spend any
segments moving
in.
Players,
don't despair; you can take
measures to prevent surprise,
such as
describing who's looking
where and
when, having a ranger or
a monk along,
and so forth. The DM should
adjust surprise
rolls according to terrain
and specific
actions, so you can avoid
being
surprised most of the time.
But it can get
nasty with bad rolls, and
you can't be
super-alert all the
time.
(Polyhedron #3)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_j
Gary, I know you are not
really keen about answering rules-specific questions, but I was hoping
you would honor me with your input on this matter:
OAD&D surprise and missile weapon rate-of-fire:
Grognard the ranger is lying in wait for a group of 6 orcs. He has his trusty longbow at the ready. When the orcs come within short range of his bow, he leaps from cover and makes a successful suprise roll of 1 on the d6, giving him 1 segment of surprise. Now for the question: How many arrows can Grognard fire at the orcs in his surprise segment? Is it the rate of fire tripled as I interpret from the DMG (giving Grognard 6 shots and the opportunity to slay the entire party of orcs)? Or is the intended interpetation something else?
Thanks for your insight.
Mark
No tripled fire.
The ROF for a longbow is
2 per segment, so he looses two shafts, then might get off two more before
the orcs can respond.
Cheers,
Gary
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottGLXIX
Hey Gary. A debate on the
rate of fire of missile weapons during surpise has recently come up on
several message boards I frequent.
The rule as written states
that missile fire is 3 times the normal rate. This equates to 6 arrows,
or 9 darts in a single segment.
I've always believed that
the original intent of the rule got diluted somewhere between author and
editor (similar to falling damage) and that the rate of fire should be
a standard 3 per segment, but certain weapons, like a heavy crossbow, require
special consideration, and must be handled on a case by case basis.
Scott
Scott,
Another post I missed earlier <frown>
When that rule was written
a segment of a round was six seconds long, but I can not but agree with
with your assessment.
Six arrows
is potentailly possible, but having them arranged for such a rapid rate
of fire is improbable.
The same is true for nine
darts.
Standard rate of fire, but
uninterrupted by any return, is much more logical.
The same is true for special
consideration on a case-by-case basis.
In all, application of comon sense needs be applied.
Cheers,
Gary
Surprise:
Both sides roll surprise....If
one side is surprised, and the other is not...
The score of the higher
is subtracted from the lower to determine how many segments the losing
side is surprised, based on the table in both the PHB
and the DMG.
If both sides are surprised, the same occurs to determine which side (if any) gets actions before the other, and how many segments of action the "winning" side gets.
During surprise, characters
can get a full round's worth of action in only a segment's time - and possibly
double the rate of fire for missile weapons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melkor
Hi Gary,
I wanted to pick your brain
for some knowledge of the Surprise and Initiative systems in AD&D
1st Edition.
Here are my thoughts on
how it works, would you mind pointing out there errors and clarifying some
of my points that may be a little off ?
Thanks in advance for your
time!
Hi Melkor
Those are some lengthy and
very well-phrased questions.
Thanks for the latter, as
it maked answering easy.
Quote:
Surprise:
...
Your understanding is correct.
Blustar
wrote:
Don't mean to bother you
with minutiae regarding OAD&D (but here
I go!) but do ranged attacks get their full ROF's during surprise segments?
For example, if a PC has
3 seg. of surprise to work with(and had a bow), could he/she fire 2 arrows
per seg.?
In effect getting 6 shots
off before initiative?
We already play with our
own "house" rule but was wondering what the official rule intended.
The combat example later
in the DMG seems to imply a different reading.
Sorry for the boring question...
regards,
Alex
no problemo:)
As
far as my intent went, there was no difference between a blow and a missile
attack in regards to surprise.
So
if there are three segments of surprise, the weapon has a RoF of two per
segment, then six attacks could indeed be made thus.
Cheers,
Gary
DMPrata wrote:
Spork wrote:
Spork, for more than you
ever wanted to know about surprise and initiative, read the PDF
linked in my sig.
In short, the ranger would
be surprised 4 in 6, and the monster would be surprised 2 in 6.
Close, but I'd do it this
way:
Deduct the ranger's
three from the critter's five, and you have a difference of two, so that
means the critter against the ranger has 2 in 6, the ranger only 1 in 6.
When two sneaky types are
about to bump into each other I think surprise is pretty unlikely on the
part of either adversary.
Cheers,
Gary
DMPrata wrote:
Hmm... I thought the reasoning
was that the ranger was 1 in 6 more likely to surprise, and 1 in 6 less
likely to be surprised, than the average PC. So, where a normal PC would
surprise the monster on 1 in 6, and be surprised 5 in 6, the ranger's chances
would be 2 in 6 and 4 in 6, respectively.
Whatever...
My reasoning is as noted 
Cheers,
Gary
Surprising and being surprised
are components of the surprise factor.
That has to do with stealthy
approach and alertness.
If both parties in such
a situation are stealthy and alert, then chances for surprising and being
surprised are minimal.
Cheerio,
Gary
Prior detection negates the
possibility of surprise. Thus, magical devices
can possibly negate surprise
by detection of thoughts or intentions. Noise
can negate surprise considerations,
whether the sound is the normal
progress of the party or
the effect of a fruitless attempt to open a door.
Light can spoil the chance
of surprise. The particular condition of a monster
can likewise negote any
chance of it being surprised. In any event, it is of
utmost importance to realize
that surprise can be and often is unilateral.
That is, one party can be
surprised while the other, somehow aware of the
other's presence, can NOT
be so taken. In all such cases, merely roll for the
party which is subiect to
the condition and do not roll for the other.
Dexterity
Reaction In Surprise:
This factor (Dexterity
Table I, PH) affects both surprise
and mutual surprise situations.
In the former case the penalty
(-3 to -1) or bonus (+1 to +3) allows the surprised party on an individual
basis only the opportunity to mitigate the condition.
That is, if there is a dexterity
penalty,
the individual will suffer
that many additional segments of time in a surprised state.
On the other hand,
if the dexterity bonus applies
the individual negates that many segments of surprise as far as the individual
only is concerned.
Dexterity reaction bonus
for surprise never creates surprise in an opponent party or in an individual
with regard to its penalty factor;
it adds to existing surprise
or detracts from it,
and only as far as the particular
individual is concerned,
not for any other individuals
concerned.
As DM you will undoubtedly
decide that there are situotions where penalty and/or bonus do not apply,
such as when an individual
is otherwise prepared or when the individual is in the act of pulling chain
mail over his or her head.
Such adjudication is properly
within the scope of refereeing the game, and you should feel free to deny
either case as you see fit.
Factors
Contributing To Surprise:
When one side or another
is surprised,
this general term can represent
a number of possible circumstances.
In the first place it simply
represents actual surprise --
that is, the opponent was
unprepared for the appearance/attack.
The reason for this could
be eating, sleeping, waste elimination, ottention elsewhere, no weapon
ready, etc.
While each possible cause
of surprise could be detailed,
with a matrix and factors
of time for recovery from the condition calculated to a nicety,
the overall result would
not materially add to the game --
in fact, the undue complication
would detract from the smooth flow of play.
The second factor represented
in surprise is morale.
What is the effect of being
taken unaware and/or unprepared upon the surprised party?
Reactions are not only hampered
by circumstances of a physical nature.
Panic or fear reactions
to the situation take their toll.
Again, this is all subsumed
in the single surprise roll determination for each side,
and in the simple set of
rules governing what transpires when one or the other is surprised.
Finally, the surprising group
must be able to assess the situation and act upon it,
so surprise doesn't mean
that the party with the advantage has automatically achieved victory and
triumph.
What is gained is the opportunity
to act as is seen best in the circumstances --
be it to flee the encounter,
get the "drop" on the surprised,
or to attack with spells, missiles, or blows.
Of course, the other side
is then forced to react to whatever the surprising side has chosen to do.
The second factor represented
in surprise is morale. What is the effect of
being taken unaware and/or
unprepared upon the surprised party?
Reactions are not only hampered
by circumstances of a physical nature.
Panic or fear reactions
to the situation take their toll. Again, this is all
subsumed in the single surprise
roll determination for each side, and in the
simple set of rules governing
what transpires when one or the other is
surprised.
Finally, the surprising group
must be able to assess the situation and act
upon it, so surprise doesn't
mean that the party with the advantage has
automatically achieved victory
and triumph. What is gained is the opportunity
to act as is seen best in
the circumstances - be it to flee the encounter,
get the "drop" on the surprised,
or to attack with spells, missiles,
or blows. Of course, the
other side is then forced to react to whatever the
surprising side has chosen
to do.
