CHARACTER RACES
CHARACTER RACES
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After a player has determined
the abilities of his or her character, it is then
time to decide of what racial
stock the character is to be. For purposes of
the game the racial stocks
are limited to the following: dwarven, elven,
gnome, half-elven, halfling,
half-orc, and human. Each racial stock has
advantages and disadvantages,
although in general human is superior to
the others for reasons you
will discover as you read on. The DM
may have restrictions as
to which races are allowed in the
campaign due to the circumstances
of the milieu.
Q. What exactly is
meant by the terms
'human', 'demi-human' and
'humanoid'?
Aren't they the same thing?
A. Definitions as
to what the various
terms mean in the games are
quite
confused at times, partly
because the
rules have been under revision
since
they were first published.
'Human'
means just that, a member
ov the species homo
storiens storiens, <alt>
regardless of other considerations.
'Humanoid' should literally
mean all
beings that are man-like
(or woman-like)
in form -- 1 head, 2 arms,
2 legs -- but in practice
the word is
limited to evil anthropomorphic
beings (orcs, goblins, gnolls,
and the
rest) rather than elves &&
dwarves.
Elves,
dwarves and hobbits are
referred to as 'demi-human'
in the
Basic rules -- something
a bit closer
to 'human' than 'humanoid',
but
definitely NOT pure human.
In the
Advanced Game, these 3 races,
plus gnomes, half-elves and
half-orcs, <are half-orcs demi-humans?>
are closest of all to the
human
standard of shape and facial
appearance,
hence the distinction between
them and the more obviously
un-human
humanoid monsters such as
gnolls.
(Imagine #25)
Two tables for easy reference
are given below in order that you can select
the racial stock of your
character based on abilities generated and with an
eye towards what class
(q.v.) of adventurer the character will be. Most
non-human races are able
to work in two or more classes at the same time,
and some gain ability score
bonuses as well, but most are limited as to
how great a level they may
attain in a given class, except in the case of a
thief.
<
AGE:
PERSONALITY:
CLASSES:
HEIGHT:
WEIGHT:
>
Q. Given that half-elves
and half-orcs
(in the Advanced Game) exist,
why
aren't there any half-dwarves,
hobbit-gnomes
or dwarf-elves?
A. Half-elves and
half-orcs are hybrids
of those races with human
beings,
who are, if you like, the
basic
humanoid creatures of the
Game. The
othe races are not prolific
enough
(or tha that way inclined)
to interbreed
with each other. The
Racial
Preferences
Table(PH
p18) shows just how
few of the races would get
on well
enough. The only exceptions
to this
general principle are probably
orcs
who, given the chance, will
breed
with anything.
(Imagine #12)
CHARACTER RACE TABLE I.: CHARACTER CLASS LIMITATIONS
| - | Racial Stock of Character | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - |
| - | Dwarves | - | - | Elves | - | - | - | - | - | Gnomes | - | - | - | - | - | - |
| Character Class | Gray | Hill | Mountain | Dark | Gray | High | Valley | Wild | Wood | Deep | Surface | Half-Elves | Halflings (all) | Half-Orcs | Humans | Alignment Requirements |
| CAVALIER | no | no | no | yes | yes | yes | no | no | no | no | no | yes | no | no | yes | Any good at start |
| Paladin | no | no | no | no | no | no | no | no | no | no | no | yes | no | no | yes | Lawful good only |
| CLERIC | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes | no | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes | Any |
| Druid | no | no | no | no | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes | no | no | yes | yes | no | yes | True neutral only |
| FIGHTER | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes | Any |
| Barbarian | no | no | no | no | no | no | no | no | no | no | no | no | no | no | yes | Any non-lawful |
| Ranger | no | no | no | yes | yes | yes | yes | no | yes | no | no | yes | no | no | yes | Any good |
| MAGIC-USER | no | no | no | yes | yes | yes | yes | no | yes | no | no | yes | no | no | yes | Any |
| Illusionist | no | no | no | no | no | no | no | no | no | yes | yes | no | no | no | yes | Any |
| THIEF | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes | Any non-good |
| Acrobat | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes | Any non-good |
| Assassin | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes | yes | no | yes | yes | Any evil |
| MONK | no | no | no | no | no | no | no | no | no | no | no | no | no | no | yes | Any lawful |
| BARD | no | no | no | no | no | no | no | no | no | no | no | no | no | no | yes | Any neutral |
Notes Regarding Character Race Table I:
Character Class names are shown in capital letters if the class is major; sub-classes are shown with the first letter capitalized only.
All of the racial varieties and strains available for player characters are listed alphabetically according to major type, and then alphabetically within each major type for the sub-races thereof. An exception is made for halflings, where stout, tallfellow, and hairfoot halflings are grouped under one heading because each strain of that race has the same class limitations. Although the limitations are the same for all strains within the major races of dwarves and gnomes, each variety is listed separately to emphasize the fact that player characters can now be of any one of those five sub-races.
A "no" indicates that the race cannot become the character class in question. A "yes" indicates that the race is able to become the character class in question.
The column for Alignment
Requirements applies to members of all races, not only to those races
listed in the bottom section of the table.
ADQ: The Moradin section
in the
DEITIES & DEMIGODS Cyclopedia
states
that NPC dwarven clerics
can rise to 7th level. Does
this mean that
PCs cannot be dwarven clerics?
ADA: This
point is covered in the Players Handbook.
PCs cannot be dwarven
clerics.
(Polyhedron #14)
(UA: Yes, dwarf PCs can
be clerics)
Question: An elf
M-U
has reached maximum level, and the player has decided to polymorph
the character into a human so he can continue to gain levels.
Can he do this?
Answer: No, he cannot.
He may look like a human,
but he is still an elf in reality, and therefore
racial limitations still apply. — J. Wells
l l l
SA:
A DM could declare that a demi-human cleric who reaches the highest possible
level is able to invoke the favor of his or her deity to permanently enchant
certain items,
in the same way as normal
clerics of 11th level or above, or druids of 13th level and above.
*** (Update: Remember
that in all cases, a WIS of 20-22 is req. for a demi-human cleric to attain
the max. level in the cleric class)
Penalties and Bonuses for Race:
Certain racial stocks excel
in certain ability areas and have shortcomings in others.
These penalties and bonuses
are applired to the initial ability scores generated by a player
for his or her character
as soon as the racial stock of the character is selected,
and the modified ability
scores then are considered as if they were the actual ability
scores generated for all
gam purposes. These penalties and bonuses are shown below:
| Race | Penalty or Bonus |
| Dwarf | Constitution +1; Charisma -1 |
| Elf | Dexterity +1; Constitution -1 |
| Half-Orc | Strength +1; Constitution +1; Charisma -2 |
| Halfling | Strength -1; Dexterity +1 |
There are certain other disadvantages
and advantages to characters of
various races; these are
described in the paragraphs pertaining to each
race which follow.
COMELINESS
Half-orcs: -3
Dwarves, gnomes, dark
elf males: -1
* Halflings, humans,
wild elves**, vally elves**: 0
* Half-elves, sylvan
elves, dark elf females: +1
* Gray elves, high elves:
+2
* -- Treat these pairs as being of the same race for purposes
of effective comeliness; e.g., halflings are just as attractive
(or repulsive) to humans as humans are to each other,
and vice versa.
** -- Wild elves and valley elves are not "of the same race" for purposes
of effective comeliness;
this concept only applies to halflings vis-a-vis humans and gray
elves vis-a-vis high elves. (D103.12) <needs to be corrected>
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm
Raven
Some mechanics are more arbitrary
than others. Dwarves get a bonus to Constitution because they are supposed
to be generally tougher and hardier than other races. Elves get a bonus
to Dexterity because they are generally more graceful than other races.
The rules have a point built into their existence that makes sense from
an internal perspective. Thus they are not wholly arbitrary.
Au contraire, those selections
are made by the game designer on the arbitrary basis of his preferences,
or what he believes will make the game more enjoyable to an audience.
Character
Ability Scores by Racial Type:
-
As noted previously in the
section pertaining to character abilities, the
non- and part-human races
must meet certain minimum ability scores, and
some races have lower maximum
possible scores as well. In order for your
character to be of one of
these races, these minimums and maximums
must be met. The minimum
scores must have been generated in the initial
abilities rolls, or if bonuses
are given for the race, then the minimums must
be met considering such bonuses.
Maximums applicable are easily met,
for the ability score is
simply lowered to conform to the maximum.
The table below shows these
minimum and maximum figures at a glance.
CHARACTER RACE TABLE III: ABILITY SCORE MINIMUMS & MAXIMUMS
| Character
Ability Scores |
Dwarven M | Dwarven F | Elven M | Elven F | Gnome M | Gnome F | Half-Elven M | Half-Elven F | Halfling M | Halfling F | Half-Orc M | Half-Orc F |
| STRENGTH* | ||||||||||||
| Min. | 8 | 8 | 3 | 3 | 6 | 6 | 3 | 3 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 |
| Max. | 18 | 17 | 18 | 16 | 18 | 15 | 18 | 17 | 17 | 14 | 18 | 18 |
| INTELLIGENCE | ||||||||||||
| Min. | 3 | 3 | 8 | 8 | 7 | 7 | 4 | 4 | 6 | 6 | 3 | 3 |
| Max. | 18 | 18 | 18 | 18 | 18 | 18 | 18 | 18 | 18 | 18 | 17 | 17 |
| WISDOM | ||||||||||||
| Min. | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 |
| Max. | 18 | 18 | 18 | 18 | 18 | 18 | 18 | 18 | 17 | 17 | 14 | 14 |
| DEXTERITY | ||||||||||||
| Min. | 3 | 3 | 7 | 7 | 3 | 3 | 6 | 6 | 8 | 8 | 3 | 3 |
| Max. | 17 | 17 | 19 | 19 | 18 | 18 | 18 | 18 | 19 | 19 | 17 | 17 |
| CONSTITUTION | ||||||||||||
| Min. | 12 | 12 | 6 | 6 | 8 | 8 | 6 | 6 | 10 | 10 | 13 | 13 |
| Max. | 19 | 19 | 18 | 18 | 18 | 18 | 18 | 18 | 18 | 18 | 19 | 19 |
| CHARISMA | ||||||||||||
| Min. | 3 | 3 | 8 | 8 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 |
| Max. | 16 | 16 | 18 | 18 | 18 | 18 | 18 | 18 | 18 | 18 | 12 | 12 |
* As noted previously, fighters of all races might be entitled to an exceptional strength bonus, see CHARACTER ABILITIES, Strength.
Notes Regarding Character Race Table III:
Minimum Scores indicate
the lowest possible roll for consideration of a
character to be of the racial
type indicated. Scores below the minimum
indicated are not allowable,
so any character with less than the minimum
shown can not be of the appropriate
race.
Maximum Scores include
racial penalties and bonuses; thus, some races
can exceed the 18 total possible
in the initial generation of abilities with
three six-sided dice. Penalties
and bonuses for race are taken before
adjusting for maximum score.
The Slash (/) separates
the minimums and maximums possible for males,
shown first, and females,
shown after the slash, thus: males/females,
minimum and maximum as applicable.
A male dwarf needs a minimum
strength of 8, as does a
female of that race; a male dwarf can have a
maximum strength of 18, but
a female dwarf can have a maximum
strength of 17; this reads
as 8/8, 18/17.
The limitations given for
races on the Ability Score Table are intended to
apply to the entire race,
not just player characters. Therefore, several in-
consistencies between the
maximum scores and the player character
racial adjustments are not
mistakes. For example, although player
character elves have a -1
on their constitution, the racial maximum for
constitution of elves is
18. This is because, as explained in the Dungeon <ou est?>
Master’s Guide, exceptional
non-player elves may have a constitution of
18. Likewise, although it
is impossible for a player character halfling to roll
the maximum 19 constitution,
a non-player halfling could, due to the
bonus received on constitution
for NPC halflings in the DMG.
Question: A player
in our campaign is a dwarf Fighter
with a Constitution of 7.
When she got the PH,
she discovered that such
a thing is illegal. Should the DM
simply treat this as an abnormal
character, or is there
another way to solve the
problem?
Answer: There are two
main alternatives. One is to let her remain
as she is, but instead of
saving as a dwarf with the automatic bonuses,
she should save as a human.
Or, her Constitution score could be
altered (by raising it to
the legal minimum of 12 for dwarves) so that
she would conform to the
rules in the PH. Specific
solutions to problems like
this should always be handled by the DM,
since he/she knows the campaign
better than anyone else and is best
able to determine which alternatives
would fit best into the game.
Question: May a character’s
ability be increased beyond
maximum racial abilities
(Players Handbook, page 15) by
magical means (i.e. Manual
of Quickness of Action, Wish,
etc.)?
Answer: Using the interpretation
from page 11 of the Dungeon
Masters Guide, it is perfectly
acceptable to raise scores above maxi-
mum racial limits when using
magic. If such were not the case, spells
like the second-level Magic-User
spell Strength would be useless. — J.
Ward, W. Niebling
SA: Note that the limits on Table III, above, do NOT apply to NPCs.
Bargle the Infamous
wrote:
Hi Gary,
I have a question about minimum scores and racial penalties in AD&D.
When generating a character, may I assign a roll to an ability when a racial penalty for that ability would reduce the score below 3? If so, what is the outcome (3 or the lower value)?
I guess this is a question of whether or not 3 behaves the same as higher racial minimums -- with a racial minimum of 6, a character with a -1 penalty would need to roll a 7 or better in that ability, so would a minimum of 3 with the same penalty require a roll of 4 or better?
I've asked in the First Edition
AD&D forum, but there seem to be multiple interpretations 
Thanks
Easy 
The minumum is just that.
If any penalty reduces the character below the required minimum, another
race must be selected...or a new set of character stats generated... 
Cheerio,
Gary
As for A/D&D game
questions, I would as soon let WotC answer them, as they own the property.
Minimums are based on adjusted
dice scores, so is a PC wishes to be a particular class and there is a
racial penalty of -1,
that is deducted from the
applicable attribute before the final totals and chatacter class are determined.
Cheerio,
Gary
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barak
Heh Mr Gygax, I'm glad to
see that, on the whole, your view on most of the "complaints" about D&D
or even FRPGs in general reflect mine. I fondly remember answering a rather
long tirade about the fact that nowadays female characters had basically
the same STR as male characters, including lenghty references to biological
and sociological surveys with the simple "Ok, but you're fine with fireballs?",
and I'm glad to see you would basically have answered in kind. Realism
in fantasy can only go so far, eh?
Howdy Barak!
Just so.
The only limit I placed on
female PCS was no Str above 18.
In actual history female
participation in what would be considered adventuring was virtually nil.
i am always amused when history
programs on the tube attempt Political Corectness by featuring the only
examples of female duelists, pirates, warriors, etc.
They represent less than
one percent of the whole being considered, and featuring one-armed men
in the same roles would be at least as meaningful historically.
Frankly, not only did society
generally prevent such participation, but I believe most women were generally
not the least interested in engaging in such dangerous and questionable
activities.
That said, I never enforced
the rule in my own game, for the milieu is fantasy, and given that, why
have a physical power barrier when there are no others?
If any player, male or female,
wants to have a female character that is as strong as any male, there is
no reason not to allow that.
Cheers,
Gary
CHARACTER RACE DESCRIPTIONS
All of the non-human or part-human
races closely resemble humans in
many aspects. It is assumed
that similarities are sufficiently apparent so as
to warrant no further comment,
and only special racial characteristics
which are dissimilar to humans
will be dealt with. Characters differ slightly
within their respective races
as a whole.
| Dwarves | Elves | - | Gnomes | Halflings |
| Half-Orcs | - | - | - | Humans |
-
P: P indicates that the race is generally
preferred, and dealings with
the members of the race will be reflected accordingly.
G: G indicates that considerable goodwill exists towards the race.
T: T indicates tha the race is viewed
with
tolerance, and
generally accepted, if not loved.
N: N shows that the race is thought of neutrally, although some suspicion will be evident.
A: A means that the races is greeted with antipathy.
H: A strong hatred for the race in question.
| Race | DG | DH | DM | ED | EG | EH | EV | EWi | EWd | GD | GS | 1/2E | HH | HS | HT | 1/2O | H |
| DWARF | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - |
| Gray (DG) | P | A | A | G | H | H | H | H | H | A | A | N | N | T | N | N | N |
| Hill (DH) | A | P | G | H | A | A | A | A | A | N | G | N | T | G | G | H | N |
| Mountain (DM) | A | G | P | H | A | A | A | A | A | T | T | N | T | G | T | H | N |
| ELF | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - |
| Dark (ED) | G | A | A | P | H | H | A | H | H | H | A | A | A | A | A | T | N |
| Gray (EG) | A | A | A | H | P | G | A | T | G | N | T | G | T | T | G | A | N |
| High (EH) | A | A | A | H | P | G | A | N | G | T | T | G | T | T | G | A | N |
| Valley (EV) | A | A | A | A | N | N | P | N | N | G | G | T | N | N | T | A | A |
| Wild (EW) | A | A | A | H | N | N | A | P | N | A | A | A | A | A | N | A | A |
| Wood (EWd) | A | A | A | H | G | G | A | N | P | N | N | G | T | T | G | A | N |
| GNOME | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - |
| Deep (GD) | A | N | T | H | N | N | T | N | N | P | G | N | T | T | T | A | N |
| Surface (GS) | A | G | G | A | T | T | G | N | N | G | P | T | G | G | G | H | N |
| HALF-ELF* (1/2E) | N | N | N | A | G | G | G | A | G | N | T | P | N | N | T | A | T |
| Dark descent | T | N | N | G | A | A | N | A | A | A | N | ** | A | A | A | T | N |
| HALFLING | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - |
| Hairfoot (HH) | N | T | T | A | T | T | N | N | T | N | T | N | P | P | P | N | T |
| Stout (HS) | T | G | G | A | T | T | N | N | T | T | T | N | P | P | P | N | N |
| Tallfellow (HT) | N | T | T | N | G | G | T | T | G | N | T | G | P | P | P | N | N |
| HALF-ORC (1/2O) | N | H | H | N | A | A | A | A | A | A | H | A | N | N | A | P | T |
| HUMAN (H) | N | N | N | N | N | N | N | N | N | N | N | T | N | N | N | N | P |
* With regard to the reactions of races
other than elves,
half-elves are considered as a specific
racial type.
However, elves will react to half-elves
as if the half-elf were either a half-elf or a
full-blooded elf of the same racial type
as the half-elf's non-human ancestor,
whichever is the more negative reaction.
** Preference for half-elves of dark descent, hatred for all other half-elves.
N:
<remember to apply the -1 to -8% modifier
for suspicion: DMG.100/102>
elementalawe wrote:
ADandD 1st edit. DM Gary
Gygax
I don't have a DM, so I want
you to be my DM temporarily.
If I would be playing in
your Greyhawk campaign and the time is 1977 to 1988, would you allow me
to play a half-dwarf and half-human?
If so, which human of Greyhawk-Oerth
mixes with which dwarf subrace?
That's easy! There were no
half-dwarves in my campaign, although I suppose if pressed I'd allow a
dwarf-orc mix... (J/K)
Cheers,
Gary
elementalawe wrote:
Game Designer and author
Gary
As a DM, you don't allow a half-dwarf and half-human in your campaign. Your campaign is GreyHawk because you created it, so does that mean some other DM who is using GreyHawk can allow a half-dwarf and half-human as a PC race? Is a DM other than you, in accordance with the ADandD 1st edit. PHB or DMG, allowed to create a half-dwarf and half-human for any campaign?
Well...
In the PHB and the DMG I authored,
there isn't a rule that established any half-anything other than a half-elf
and a half-orc.
Of course any DM can make
up any rules for any campaign he runs, including
Greyhawk,
and if that includes a halfling-ogre character, it's none of my business.
Gary
Rhuvein wrote:
Hello Gary. I haven't seen
this asked before, but forgive me if you've answered this elsewhere.
Which race is the oldest,
among the gnomes, elves and dwarves?
Thanks! :D
Actually, no one has ever
asked me that question;)
As far as I am concerned,
the racial age is the same for the lot of demi-humans.
Cheers,
Gary
DMPrata wrote:
Gary, no doubt this has been
asked of you before, but I haven't been able to find a "definitive" answer.
Did you intend for dwarven PC's (and other small demi-humans) to move slower
than human PC's, or were the Monster Manual movement rates (6" for dwarves
& gnomes, 9" for halflings) written to reflect units of armored troops
as opposed to individuals? There seem to be two schools of thought on this
one.
The rates of movement given
indeed were for troop units, not individual PCs--not that a fully armored
dwarf PC would move faster, or that a halflinf PC like-armored would move
9.
DMPrata wrote:
The player of the dwarven
PC in my group is going to be very happy when I tell him he can now move
at the same base rate as the humans :D (subject to armor and encumbrance,
of course). In later editions of the game (grr :evil: ), dwarves were specifically
given lower base movement rates, but I wasn't sure that that was actually
your original intention. Clearly now it wasn't. Thanks once again Gary!
Be careful now...
An unencumbered human has a base movement rate of 12, I'd give the short-legged folk a base of 9.
Obmi the Dwarf, one of my favorite villians, relied on his boots of speed to escape human pursuers...which infuriated the players, of course.
Cheers,
Gary
Clangador wrote:
Gary,
I was looking over the 1e PHB yesterday and got to wondering.
Why are there demihuman level limits?
Just curious.
Heh...
I looked ahead, and the other
responses are true in part.
I definately assumed a fantasy
world dominated by humans.
A good reason for this is
that creating a non-human culture and societies based on it is far more
than I care to attempt for a game.
If demi-humans had no limits to their potential, then as depicted, they would surely rise to dominate the world...and invention of their cultures and societies would be an absolute necessity.
Game balance is also a factor.
Demi-humans have advantages
over humans, so their maximum power needs limitation for the reason noted
above.
Cheers,
Gary
Elfdart,
In essence I concur with your handling the matter of half-orcs...and possibly applying it to half-elves as well;)
A likely template for general social reaction to such individuals can be found in the social history of the USA around 1850. A good deal of prejudicial and ethnocentric behavior there.
Cheers,
Gary
As for demi-humans, they
were always played extensively from day one.
All sorts of dwarf, elf,
and hobbit (later halfling) PCS--later on gnome and half-orc too.
Fact is I once had a (short-lived)
half-orc cleric-assassin PC 
Seems his adventure mates
weren't sorry to see him offed.
I still have the dwarf character, Zigbie, who is topped off in level-- and that's with all the OAD&D (with UA) additions to what level can be attained--but now and then shows up in play.
All the players opting to
play demi-human PCs knew the limitations, accepted them, and had great
fun playing the role chosen.
After all, the game doesn't
have to be about power, eh?
In my opinion, in a world
setting where humans are dominant, there is logic for setting level limits
on non-human PCs.
That's a whole other discussion
though 
Cheerio,
Gary
Quote:
Originally posted by MerricB
Gary, if you find this un-stickyfied
thread again (arrggghh!!!), could you clear up one thing that bothers me
from the AD&D rules?
Halflings: -1 Str, +1 Dex.
In the "min/max" ability score
table, they've got a maximum Dex of 18, and a maximum Con of 19. I've always
wondered about whether or not that was a typo, or if they once got a +1
Con or whatever.
Though I've always ruled that
its a typo (halflings may have a 19 Dex), it is one of those things that
makes me wonder...
Cheers & Best Wishes!
Wow! I've never had this
called to my attention before.
That's astonishing, because
so many sharp eyes have looked over the work, and errors were pointed out
with alactrity
It is clearly a gaff. The entry should be 19 Dex, of course, not 19 Con.
Gary
Quote:
Originally posted by MerricB
G'day, Gary!
I was just wondering - how popular were demihumans in your AD&D games? Did they often reach the level limits? Did they go above them due to one method or another?
Cheers!
Hi Merric
About half of the players
had demi-human PCs, and that's when I saw the need to allow multi-classing
more broadly, and not limit the thief level.
Also some of the sub-types
were created and the level limits bumped up to accommodate those who insisted
on playing non-human races in a human-dominated game and world setting.
Actually, I allways allowed a Wish spell to bump
up a level too...
It is worth noting, that most players never got PCs above around 12th level, so even an elf fighter/m-u of 5/8 was a viable member of a typical party.
Cheers,
Gary
Quote:
Originally posted by Geoffrey
In my games, I considered
banshees the spirits of human women who died in childbirth. Also, I considered
that demi-humans were all of inherently good alignment. I didn't have any
evil or neutral dwarves, elves, gnomes, or halflings in my world. (This,
of course, doesn't include duergar, drow, or deep gnomes.) Just as, for
example, there were no six-foot tall halflings (not even as "exceptions"),
there were no non-lawful good ones either.
Geoffrey, I was not so strict
in my management of demi-humans. While most were basicaly of G alignment
as groups, there were plenty of TN elves, and individuals within a group
could vary through the whole spectrum. Basically E demi-humans had the
same exceptions, although most PCs were hesitant to believe them, heh-heh.
Never did have a halfling or any other sort of racially gigantic proportions. About 25% variation in height was the max.
Cheers,
Gary
Quote:
Originally Posted by redwing00
Gary- I'm not quite sure
if this question has been asked before as it seems to be a fairly simple
one, but how did you pick the races for D&D? In 1ed only dwarves, elves,
"hobbits", and humans were PC races. I'm guessing this was drawn from LotR.
But in 2ed gnomes came in. What source did you draw these creatures from.
Howdy!
Fact is that dwarves and elves came from mythology and folklore, the hobbit from JRRT's work. That mix was selected to attract readers of the "Rings Trilogy," of course. Later on I added gnomes to D&D to broaden the choices for non-human PCs, as I did in AD&D. This was done because a number of players, myself included, were tired of having so many dwarves, elves, and halflings in the group of adventurers. In my campaign a party of 12 would have three front rank halflings, a second rank of dwarves, elves in the third rank, and the fourth rank the humans--mainly magic-users and clerics.
Cheers,
Gary
<virel>
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virel
I would like to ask about
your views on the female strenght limits in OAD&D.
After playing for a while with them, as DM I dropped the limits in my campaign when a female player rolled 18/95 strength for her female fighter. One half of my long time OAD&D gaming group is female, so I let my orginal ruling from way back in 1980 still stand. The character gender ends up being about 50/50 most of the time. It's never been a balance issue, however it gives up a little realism in favor of flexibility for players.
Later one of the players and I did a little research (mid 1980's) on female strength based on the Olympic/world records etc. 18/63 seemed a realistic limit. Last year I revised the topic and based on the new records etc 18/76 seemed like a new realistic limit.
When DMing OAD&D these days, at character generation do you keep the orginal limits for females or have they been changed etc?
I agree that human males
can develop greater upper body strength than human females etc.
Your alternation doesn't
disturb me in the least. Why I decided on realism in regards to male/female
strength is beyond me. After all in a fantasy game that doesn't make a
great deal of sense. I suppose I just wasn't thinking the matter through
in regards the genre. I do not have such differentiations in the Lejendary
Adventure game.
As for the actual difference between males and females, I am quite comfortable with the limits I placed in the book...unless steroids are taken into account. Males have some 30% more muscle mass, IIRR, and they are taller and heavier than females. All of that matters in combat.
Cheerio,
Gary
<link to the Female Str.
posts from STR>
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elfdart
I had a house rule:
Only humans, gnomes, half-elves, wood elves and half-Euroz (Greyhawk!) were allowed, and only one PC in four was allowed to be demi or semi-human. I got sick of all-elf parties and the stereotypical ways demi-humans (elves, halflings, dwarves) were played. Edmund Wilson was right about LOTR showing "a poverty of invention", and watching players ape that poverty of invention was annoying.
We got back to the humanocentric gaming of the old days. The only thing missing was art by DAT!
No quibbles about that from
me <wink>
Someone of the female gender once asked why I wrote from the male perspective. Well duh!
In similar vein, I don't know any actaul hobbits, gnomes, elves, dwarfs, or half-breeds of those races, so whatever a human might write about them is going to be from a human standpoint thinly guised, or perhaps fairly well so, as a non-human perspective <confused>
As for DAT, we have tried our best to get Tramp back doing artwork, alas to no avail <frown>
Cheers,
Gary
Quote:
Originally Posted by zakon
Also, why did you cap the
levels on every race except human?
Your statement regarding
level limits is not wholly correct.
There is usually no level
limit on non-human thief class characters.
As the fantasy worlds for
RPGs are ruled by humans, not other races, of course
humans must be superior.
Campaign worlds are humanocentric
because all GMs are human, of course, and actually developing a milieu
in which some other race was predominant is a poser, a creative task I
would not care to undertake, as it would necessarily take decades, if it
could be properly depicted at all, IMO.
Cheers,
Gary
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoffrey
I thoroughly agree. Non-humans
should not be absurd "funny-looking humans with cool powers".
Tell me, what else are virtually
all the humanoid races in fantasy and SF if not just that?...although they
may not have special powers, just accentuated human
characterists and senses.
As a matter of fact I am guilty
of creating such species myself, but there is a reason, I am a human and
think accordingly, and as I think I create.
when a young female editor
for a large publishing house once querried me in accusitory tone, "Why
do you always write from the masculine perspective?!"
"Madam, I happen to be a male."
Gary
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vargo
I thought I'd back up Gary
with something a science fiction author (David Brin) once said when asked
about creating memorable alien species - he basically said that he takes
one trait (such as being a trickster, or being stubborn, or scheming, or
something like that) and turns the dial up to eleven on that trait. He
does have some pretty unusual creatures in his universe...
Nothing to ask Gary today, other than a sincere hope that your health is good!
Yuppers!
It would be possible to create
a completely different non-human species, but because the one doing so
is human, some of that will surely show up in the
supposedly exotic species, its history, cultures, and societies...not to
mention technology. The time and effort required to devise such a thing
would surely be inordinate, for the more successful the result the less
the audience will be able to relate to it 
And yes thanks! I am feeling
pretty well and right chipper...only a tad overworked now in semi-retirement 
Cheerio,
Gary
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoffrey
Gary, in your LA and A/D&D
games, you include demi-humans right alongside humans as PCs.
In your Dangerous Journeys:
Mythus game, however, you relegated demi-human PCs to explicitly optional
status, and gave them only 2 pages versus 17 pages of descriptions for
human PCs.
Why the de-emphasis on demi-human PCs in Mythus as opposed to your other FRPGs?
Frankly, I find human characters
a lot more interesting than most non-human ones.
In most cases they are played
as stereotypes...badly played thus at that,
Heh...
As a mater of fact, the only
half-anything characters in my campaign were the human and either elf and
orc ones.
As I mentioned jokingly,
would a half-halfling be a quartling?
While hafbreed characters can make for some interesting role-playing, the desire for them is generally instigated by some player seeking to gain an advantage through adding and playing such a mixed race character.
Cheers,
Gary
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