CHARACTER RACES
 
 



 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Dwarves
Elves
Racial Ability Mods
Gnomes
Halflings
Half-Orcs
-
-
-
Humans
Character Class Limitations
-
Class Level Limitations
-
Ability Score Mins. & Maxs.
Racial Preferences
-
-
-
PH

After a player has determined the abilities of his or her character, it is then
time to decide of what racial stock the character is to be. For purposes of
the game the racial stocks are limited to the following: dwarven, elven,
gnome, half-elven, halfling, half-orc, and human. Each racial stock has
advantages and disadvantages, although in general human is superior to
the others for reasons you will discover as you read on. The DM
may have restrictions as to which races are allowed in the
campaign due to the circumstances of the milieu.
 
 

Q. What exactly is meant by the terms
'human', 'demi-human' and 'humanoid'?
Aren't they the same thing?
A. Definitions as to what the various
terms mean in the games are quite
confused at times, partly because the
rules have been under revision since
they were first published.
    'Human' means just that, a member
ov the species homo storiens storiens, <alt>
regardless of other considerations.
'Humanoid' should literally mean all
beings that are man-like (or woman-like)
in form -- 1 head, 2 arms,
2 legs -- but in practice the word is
limited to evil anthropomorphic
beings (orcs, goblins, gnolls, and the
rest) rather than elves && dwarves.
    Elves, dwarves and hobbits are
referred to as 'demi-human' in the
Basic rules -- something a bit closer
to 'human' than 'humanoid', but
definitely NOT pure human.  In the
Advanced Game, these 3 races,
plus gnomes, half-elves and half-orcs, <are half-orcs demi-humans?>
are closest of all to the human
standard of shape and facial appearance,
hence the distinction between
them and the more obviously un-human
humanoid monsters such as gnolls.
(Imagine #25)
 

Two tables for easy reference are given below in order that you can select
the racial stock of your character based on abilities generated and with an
eye towards what class (q.v.) of adventurer the character will be. Most
non-human races are able to work in two or more classes at the same time,
and some gain ability score bonuses as well, but most are limited as to
how great a level they may attain in a given class, except in the case of a
thief.

<
AGE:
PERSONALITY:
CLASSES:
HEIGHT:
WEIGHT:
>

Q. Given that half-elves and half-orcs
(in the Advanced Game) exist, why
aren't there any half-dwarves, hobbit-gnomes
or dwarf-elves?
A. Half-elves and half-orcs are hybrids
of those races with human beings,
who are, if you like, the basic
humanoid creatures of the Game.  The
othe races are not prolific enough
(or tha that way inclined) to interbreed
with each other.  The Racial Preferences
Table(PH p18) shows just how
few of the races would get on well
enough.  The only exceptions to this
general principle are probably orcs
who, given the chance, will breed
with anything.
(Imagine #12)

CHARACTER RACE TABLE I.: CHARACTER CLASS LIMITATIONS
- Racial Stock of Character - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- Dwarves - - Elves - - - - - Gnomes - - - - - -
Character Class Gray Hill Mountain Dark Gray High Valley Wild Wood Deep Surface Half-Elves Halflings (all) Half-Orcs Humans Alignment Requirements
CAVALIER no no no yes yes yes no no no no no yes no no yes Any good at start
    Paladin no no no no no no no no no no no yes no no yes Lawful good only
CLERIC yes yes yes yes yes yes yes no yes yes yes yes yes yes yes Any
    Druid no no no no yes yes yes yes yes no no yes yes no yes True neutral only
FIGHTER yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes Any
    Barbarian no no no no no no no no no no no no no no yes Any non-lawful
    Ranger no no no yes yes yes yes no yes no no yes no no yes Any good
MAGIC-USER no no no yes yes yes yes no yes no no yes no no yes Any
    Illusionist no no no no no no no no no yes yes no no no yes Any
THIEF yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes Any non-good
    Acrobat yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes Any non-good
    Assassin yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes no yes yes Any evil
MONK no no no no no no no no no no no no no no yes Any lawful
BARD no no no no no no no no no no no no no no yes Any neutral

Notes Regarding Character Race Table I:

Character Class names are shown in capital letters if the class is major; sub-classes are shown with the first letter capitalized only.

All of the racial varieties and strains available for player characters are listed alphabetically according to major type, and then alphabetically within each major type for the sub-races thereof. An exception is made for halflings, where stout, tallfellow, and hairfoot halflings are grouped under one heading because each strain of that race has the same class limitations. Although the limitations are the same for all strains within the major races of dwarves and gnomes, each variety is listed separately to emphasize the fact that player characters can now be of any one of those five sub-races.

A "no" indicates that the race cannot become the character class in question. A "yes" indicates that the race is able to become the character class in question.

The column for Alignment Requirements applies to members of all races, not only to those races listed in the bottom section of the table.
 
 

ADQ: The Moradin section in the
DEITIES & DEMIGODS Cyclopedia states
that NPC dwarven clerics
can rise to 7th level. Does this mean that
PCs cannot be dwarven clerics?
ADA: This point is covered in the Players Handbook.
PCs cannot be dwarven clerics.
(Polyhedron #14)
(UA: Yes, dwarf PCs can be clerics)
 


Question: An elf M-U has reached maximum level, and the player has decided to polymorph the character into a human so he can continue to gain levels.
Can he do this?

Answer: No, he cannot.
He may look like a human, but he is still an elf in reality, and therefore racial limitations still apply. — J. Wells
l l l
 

SA: A DM could declare that a demi-human cleric who reaches the highest possible level is able to invoke the favor of his or her deity to permanently enchant certain items,
in the same way as normal clerics of 11th level or above, or druids of 13th level and above.
*** (Update: Remember that in all cases, a WIS of 20-22 is req. for a demi-human cleric to attain the max. level in the cleric class)

OUT ON A LIMB

Dwarven Paladin?

To the editor:
In an issue of Dragon in the article Giants in
the Earth, one of the "Giants” was a 14th-level
dwarven Paladin. Yet dwarves can’t be Paladins.
How is this possible?

Mark Gartner
Cranbury, NJ
(Dragon #46)
 

For an answer to this question, we sought
out Tom Moldvay, one of the co-creators of
Giants in the Earth. Tom’s response is as
follows:

“Since the heroes in Giants in the Earth
come from literature and not gaming, they
should not be expected to always fit neatly
into game terms. The order of priority when
designing heroes for Giants in the Earth is 1)
faithfulness to the character as he or she
appears in literature and 2) faithfulness to the
game system. In AD&D dwarves cannot be
paladins, yet the term “paladin” is an apt description
of Durathror (Giants in the Earth,
Dragon #27), so we artificially made him a
dwarven paladin. Since he is an NPC, he is
not likely to upset the balance of play as long
as the DM is careful. The best way to look at
Durathror as a dwarven paladin is “the exception
that proves the rule.”

(Dragon #46)

CHARACTER RACE TABLE II.: CLASS LEVEL LIMITATIONS


 

ADQ: My players can't understand why
their dwarvish fighter and elven magic-user
can't go up in levels after a certain
level is attained. Why has this limitation
been put into the game?
ADA: Limitations were put on the different
character races to balance the
game and give all races a "fighting chance."
    For instance, dwarves have many
abilities and skills that normal humans
characters don't have. They can be
multi-classed, they have infravision,
they can detect traps (see details for
each race in the Players Handbook).
Although this is true that they can't raise
in level in certain skills, they have
other abilities that should more than
make up for this "lack".
(Polyhedron #13)
 
 

How to use this table: The new class level limitations for non-human player characters depend not only on the race and class of the character,
but also on the ability score(s) he or she possesses in the characteristic(s) which are vital to the class in question. Accordingly, the
table has been redesigned and divided into sub-tables for each race. In each sub-table, class and ability score are cross-referenced to find
the maximum level attainable by a character of that class who possesses the ability score in question.

The ability scores given in the left-hand column of each chart pertain to different characteristics, varying according to the class of the character.
For fighters, rangers, and assassins, the score refers to strength; for magic-users and illusionists, intelligence; for clerics and druids,
wisdom; for thieves, dexterity. The level limits for rangers, assassins, and druids may be governed by ability scores other than the primary
one listed above; these special cases are covered in footnotes for each sub-table where they apply.

The designation “U” denotes unlimited level advancement for a character of the appropriate race and class - either effectively without
limit (for thieves and clerics), or up to the highest level attainable in the class (for druids and assassins). The cavalier class is not listed on the
tables for elves and half-elves, and the bard class is not listed on the table for half-elves, because level advancement in either of those
classes is unlimited for any character with the requisite ability scores to qualify for the class.

Note that in many cases, the ability scores given exceed the normal limits for beginning characters. This is to allow for characters who have
increased their ability scores beyond normal limits by some magical means, such as wish spells or the use of magical tomes and librams or
certain artifacts and relics. The gaining of ability scores higher than those given on the table -which should not be possible except in the
most extraordinary of circumstances - does not raise any level limit beyond what is shown here. If a character’s ability score is lower than
the first entry given on the appropriate table, then the level limit for that character is the same as the lowest level shown on the table; for
example, a hill dwarf assassin with strength of 14 or less can attain 9th level in that class.

Important: The level limits given and implied in the sub-tables may be exceeded by 2 in all cases where (a) the character is single-classed
and (b) the class in question could be a multi-classed choice for that character. Examples: A hill dwarf fighter/cleric with 18 strength can advance
only to the 8th level as a fighter, while a hill dwarf with the same strength who was a fighter only could advance as high as 10th level. A
hill dwarf clericlfighter with 14 strength can attain 6th level as a fighter; if the character were single-classed as a fighter, he or she could advance
to the 8th level in that class. A half-elf cleric/ranger with 18/90 strength, 18 intelligence, 18 wisdom, and 18 constitution can attain 9th
level in the ranger class, but a half-elf ranger with the same ability scores can rise as high as 1lth level in the class. A hill dwarf assassin is
restricted to the level limits shown on the table, since a hill dwarf cannot be both a multi-classed character and an assassin.
<revised, but not revised at 2ph.cr.htm>

TABLE II.A.: DWARVES
Ability Score Cleric (All) Fighter (Hill) Fighter (Mtn/Gray) Thief (All) Assassin (All)
15 8 6 7 U 9
16 9 6 7 U 9
17 10 7 8 U 9
18 11 8 9 U 9
18/99 - 8 9 - 111
18/00 - 9 10 - 122
19 13 10 11 U 122
20 16 12 13 U 122
21 18 15 16 U 122

1: Intelligence 18 and dexterity 19 also required
2: Intelligence 19 and dexterity 19 also required

TABLE II.B.: GNOMES
Ability Score Cleric (All) Fighter (All) Illusionist (All) Thief (All) Assassin (All)
15 7 5 6 U 8
16 8 5 6 U 8
17 9 5 6 U 8
18 10 5 7 U 8
18/50 - 6 - - 91
18/75 - 7 - - 102
18/99 - 8 - - 102
19 12 9 8 U 102
20 14 9 10 U 102
21 14 9 13 U 102

1: Intelligence 18 and dexterity 18 also required
2: Intelligence 19 and dexterity 19 also required

TABLE II.C.: ELVES
                ----------Cleric-------------------              ---------Druid--------               ----------------------Fighter----------------------------------------                          --------------------------------Magic-User---------------------------------------------
Ability 
Score		 Dark 
Males (C)		 Dark 
Females (C)		 All 
Others (C)		 Wild (D) All 
Others (D)		 Dark 
Males (F)		 Dark 
Females (F)		 Gray/High (F) Valley (F) Wild (F) Wood (F) Dark 
Males (MU)		 Dark 
Females (MU)		 Gray (MU) High (MU) Valley (MU) Wood (MU) Thief 
(All)		 Assassin 
(All) 		 Ranger 
(All)
12 4 U 7 10 U 7 9 5 5 7 6 - - - - - - - - -
13 5 U 7 10 U 8 10 5 5 7 6 - - - - - - - - -
14 6 U 7 10 U 9 11 5 5 7 6 - - - - - - - - -
15 7 U 7 10 U 10 12 5 5 7 6 - - - - - - - - -
16 7 U 8 10 U 10 12 5 5 7 6 - - - - - - - - -
17 7 U 9 10 U 10 12 5 5 7 6 12 5 11 10 11 9 U - 6
18 7 U 10 111 U 10 12 6 6 8 7 12 5 11 10 11 9 U 10 73
18/75 - - - - - 10 12 7 6 8 8 - - - - - - - 10 94
18/90 - - - - - 10 12 8 8 10 9 - - - - - - - 10 105
18/99 - - - - - 10 12 9 9 11 10 - - - - - - - 10 105
18/00 - - - - - 10 12 10 10 12 11 - - - - - - - 117 105
19 7 U 11 121 U 10 12 11 11 13 12 13 7 12 11 12 10 U 128 126
20 7 U 12 141 U 10 12 11 13 13 14 15 9 13 12 13 11 U 128 146
21 7 U 12 172 U 10 - - - - - 18 11 15 14 15 13 U 128 -
22 - - - - - - - - - - - 18 11 18 17 15 13 - - -

1: Charisma 18 also required.
2: Charisma 19 also required.
3: Intelligence 15 and wisdom 15 also required. If both of those socres are greater than 15, the character may attain 8th level.
4: Intelligence 16 and wisdom 16 also required.
5: Intelligence 17 and wisdom 17 also required.
6: Intelligence 18 and wisdom 18 also required.
7. Intelligence 16 and wisdom 19 also required.
8: Intelligence 19 or wisdom 19 also required.

For PCs only
Dear Dragon,
I am bringing to your attention something that
I myself just realized. In “Demi-humans get a
lift” by Gary Gygax (issue #95), the aquatic elves
are not represented in the “Elves, Other” section.
Is this an oversight, or are the aquatic elves
to remain the same as usual?

Alen Parker
Portland, Ore.
 

The increased level limits for demi-human
characters, first outlined in the magazine and
further refined in Unearthed Arcana, do not
apply to aquatic elves because that sub-race is not
open to player characters. New level limits are
only given for the races and sub-races to which
PCs may belong -- although, to be fain the new
benefits should also apply to NPCs of the same
races within the campaign. Aquatic elves should
be treated as described in the Monster Manual.
The vast majority of them will be of 1st level
(1 + 1 HD), with certain higher-level ?leader
types? present according to the number of elves
in an encountered group ? but since aquatic
elves do not use magic, there will be no magicusers
or spell-casting clerics in the group, no
matter how large it is. -- KM
<make note, link to aquatic elf>

TABLE II.D.: HALF-ELVES
Ability 
Score		 Cleric Druid Fighter Ranger M-U Thief Assassin
15 5 U 6 6 7 U 11
16 6 U 6 6 7 U 11
17 7 U 7 7 7 U 11
18 8 U 7 8 8 U 11
18/90 - - 8 91 - - 11
18/99 - - 9 101 - - 11
18/00 - - 10 112 - - 11
19 10 U 11 153 8 U 11
20 12 U 13 153 8 U 11

1: Intelligence 18, wisdom 18, and constitution 18 also required.
2: Intelligence 18, wisdom 18, and constitution 18 also required. If both wisdom and
constitution are greater than 18, the character can attain 12th level. If both are
greater than 19, the character can attain 14th level.
3: Intelligence 19, wisdom 19, and constitution 19 also required.

TABLE II.E.: HALFLINGS
Ability 
Score		 Cleric 
(All)		 Druid 
(All)		 Hairfoot (F) Stout (F) Tallfellow (F) Thief 
(All)
15 4 61 4 5 6 U
16 4 72 4 5 6 U
17 5 93 5 6 7 U
18 6 114 5 6 7 U
18/50 - - 6 7 8 -
18/90 - - 7 8 9 -
19 8 135 8 9 10 U
20 10 135 8 9 10 U

1: Charisma 15 also required.
2: Charisma 15 also required. If charisma is 16 or greater, the character can attain 8th level.
3: Charisma 16 also required. If charisma is 17 or greater, the character can attain 10th level.
4: Charisma 17 also required. If charisma is 18 or greater, the character can attain 12th level.
5: Charisma 19 also required.

TABLE II.F.: HALF-ORCS
Ability 
Score		 Cleric Fighter Thief Assassin
14 4 10 8 U
15 5 10 9 U
16 6 10 10 U
17 7 10 11 U
18 7 10 11 U
18/99 - 10 - -
18/00 - 11 - -
19 7 12 11 U
20 7 14 11 U
21 7 17 11 U

Don't blame Gary
-
To the readers:
Since the publication of Gary Gygax's column
("Demi-humans get a lift") in issue #95, we've
received a sizable sampling of letters from readers
who were alarmed or bewildered, or both, as a
result of what they read. In this open letter, I'll
try to set the record straight.

The article contained a mistake -- a couple of
passages that were not in the original manuscript.
This Imperfect Editor misunderstood the intent
of the new rules and, without bothering to check
the Players Handbook against the new level limits
given in the article, Yours Truly made one very
large and very wrong assumption.

It first shows up in the fourth sentence of the
second paragraph of text, the one that starts with
the words "Double-classed or triple-classed demihumans
. . . ." It surfaces again in the first sentence
of the fourth paragraph, where it is said
that the level-limit tables apply only to single-classed
demi-humans.

Both of those sentences are just plain wrong --
the tables do apply to multi-classed characters,
and the level limits for single-classed characters
are indeed two levels higher than what is shown
on the tables in the article.

This revelation should help to clear up many of
the particular questions raised by those of you
who had trouble accepting the article at face
value. Just pretend the "Double-classed and
triple-classed" sentence isn't there, and change
"single-classed" to "multi-classed" at the start of
paragraph four.

Those corrections don't clear up every question
that was posed to us, but they'll take care of the
lion's share of the problems. We may address
other questions in this column in the next issue or
two; as for other questions that we don't get to,
I'll optimistically suggest that they'll all be
cleared up when the new rules on level limits are
revised and included in Unearthed Arcana. (For
more information on that project, see the column
on the facing page.)

My apologies to anyone and everyone who was
confused by the article -- and especially to Gary,
whose writing didn't deserve the kind of treatment
I gave it. You can bet your best dice bag
that this Embarrassed Editor will take much more
care, and much less liberty, with Gary's manuscripts
in the future.

Kim Mohan
(Dragon #97)
 

Ability limits
-
Dear Dragon,
The article on new demi-human rules (issue
#95) says that no magic can raise an ability
higher than shown. What if a character has a
girdle of giant strength which raises his strength
above the highest listing in the article? Should I
use the limit given in the article, or is there an
extension to the table, or does the magic of the
girdle not count?

Andy Henrick
Raleigh, N. C.
(Dragon #97)
 

Several magic items can be used to boost an
ability score (most often strength) beyond its
normal limit -- but such changes are only temporary,
and it seems that they would still be permissible.
The prohibition on increasing ability scores
beyond the given limits applies to permanent
changes, such as an increase bestowed by a
magical book or tome. It does not apply to the
temporary increase gamed by the use of a girdle
of giant strength, a potion of giant strength,
gauntlets of ogre power, or another magic item
that works in similar fashion; when the girdle is
taken off or the potion’s duration expires, the
character’s ability score returns to normal — and
it’s that normal score which can‘t be raised
beyond the limits shown on the tables.

— KM
(Dragon #97)
 
 
 
 
 
 

‘52nd level’
-
To the editor:
I seem to have run into a problem as a DM
because of an article in TD-36. I have a player in
my group who has spent a lot of time developing
a multi-class character, specifically a half-elf
Cleric/Fighter/Magic-User. In our discussions in
developing this character, I informed the player
that her character would be limited (by the
Players Handbook) to 4th level as a Cleric, 6th <update>
level as a Fighter and 6th level as a M-U because
of the character’s abilities.

Then the next day in The Dragon I find a
52nd-level Fighter/43rd-level Magic-User/27thlevel
Thief. (See “Leomund’s Tiny Hut,” page
17). What do I tell my group? I’m limiting multiclass
characters and The Dragon is publishing
super-characters. Please help me clear this up
before I’m forced to make the wrong choice that
will make these characters unusable in other
dungeons.

C. T. Dawson
High Point, N. C.
(Dragon #40)
 

Our apologies go to Mr. Dawson and anyone
else who may have been alarmed about seeing
that super-character mentioned in Leomund’s
Tiny Hut. The passage in which that phrase appears
is part of a hypothetical description of a
character and his possessions, which author Len
Lakofka employed to introduce a column dealing
with how to define deities. In fact, the top line
of the right-hand column on page 17 says “. . .
the concept of a 25th-plus level character is ridiculous
anyway, but I’ll leave that for another
article.”

The “52nd-level Fighter. . .” which introduces
the column as a facetious device to illustrate
the sort of super-character who should not
be allowed to develop. Len’s actual recommendation
on the subject of player-character levels
is expressed in the second statement—and that
point of view is endorsed by The Dragon.

—Kim
(Dragon #40)

-
Forum answers
-
Dear editor:
I found Eric Herman's letter in issue #91 about
characters lifespan vs. level to end in an unanswered <link>
question. Eric asks, "How would you
keep an elven thief from obtaining phenomenal
levels?" His article clearly states a question mark
at the end. I have noticed this in other Forum
articles and found it to be frustrating at times.
Why do these letters go unanswered?

Charles Wiederman
Middlebury, Ind
(Dragon #93)
 

When we publish a "question letter" in the
forum section, we're hoping you will come up
with an answer.

Letters that raise questions about the mechanics
of the AD&D® game are sometimes printed in
the forum, for the same purpose that any other
kind of letter is printed: to stimulate you into
thinking about what the writer has to say, and if
you feel firmly or strongly enough about an issue
to write a response or answer for our consideration,
so much the better. The forum is intended
as a means for readers to exchange viewpoints
with each other on a wide range of topics, while
our "answering service" (in the letters column) is
limited to fielding questions about the contents of
the magazine.

-- KM
(Dragon #93)
 


Hey Big Fella,

Since you're fielding queries about ancient history in this thread....after 20 years with Unearthed Arcana, I just realized that I can find no mention of level limits for elven and half-elven cavaliers!
(Probably because I never considered such a character before yesterday...) Did I miss something?

My first inclination was this: use the same level limits as for fighters, with the restriction that elven/half-elven cavaliers must be single classed, and thus may attain 2 levels higher than shown on the table.

In this manner, a high elf who has trained to a high level of Strength can reach 9th or 10th level as a cavalier -- making him a significant character, in my campaign.

Whaddya think?

Thanks! 

Joe
 


Hola Amigo:)

Your thinking is exactly the way I see matters--despite the rules.
The [cavalier] is a [fighter], so those limist apply, The additional two levels for being single-classed also applies.
A grey elf with 19 strength would indeed be a formidable figure.
However, as I recall my reasoning back then I wanted the elves to have the chance for a few really tough fighters.

Cheers,
Gary


Joe Maccarrone wrote:
Thank you -- I think I'll go with my gut, then. Having limits to the fighter class, but not the cavalier, seems incongruous.

An elven cavalier of level 9+ -- who'd no doubt also have a high dex and great skill with a bow -- would make a fine champion for the skinny, pointy-eared folk.


As the Faerie Knights were reputedly of great puissance, you might want to go further that two levels above the indicated maximum. after all, the stats required for a cavalier are very stringent. Perhaps three levels, with one added for each 18 in Con and Dex, Str level addition also.

Hey wait! that isn't in the rules... :lol:

Of course I have been known to ignore them fairly often 

Heh,
Gary
P.S. To all rule lawyers: 

Penalties and Bonuses for Race:

Certain racial stocks excel in certain ability areas and have shortcomings in others.
These penalties and bonuses are applired to the initial ability scores generated by a player
for his or her character as soon as the racial stock of the character is selected,
and the modified ability scores then are considered as if they were the actual ability
scores generated for all gam purposes. These penalties and bonuses are shown below:
 
 
Race Penalty or Bonus
Dwarf Constitution +1; Charisma -1
Elf Dexterity +1; Constitution -1
Half-Orc Strength +1; Constitution +1; Charisma -2
Halfling Strength -1; Dexterity +1

There are certain other disadvantages and advantages to characters of
various races; these are described in the paragraphs pertaining to each
race which follow.

COMELINESS
    Half-orcs: -3
    Dwarves, gnomes, dark elf males: -1
    * Halflings, humans, wild elves**, vally elves**: 0
    * Half-elves, sylvan elves, dark elf females: +1
    * Gray elves, high elves: +2
            * -- Treat these pairs as being of the same race for purposes
                        of effective comeliness; e.g., halflings are just as attractive
                        (or repulsive) to humans as humans are to each other,
                        and vice versa.
            ** -- Wild elves and valley elves are not "of the same race" for purposes of effective comeliness;
                        this concept only applies to halflings vis-a-vis humans and gray elves vis-a-vis high elves. (D103.12) <needs to be corrected>
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Raven
Some mechanics are more arbitrary than others. Dwarves get a bonus to Constitution because they are supposed to be generally tougher and hardier than other races. Elves get a bonus to Dexterity because they are generally more graceful than other races. The rules have a point built into their existence that makes sense from an internal perspective. Thus they are not wholly arbitrary.


Au contraire, those selections are made by the game designer on the arbitrary basis of his preferences, or what he believes will make the game more enjoyable to an audience.

Character Ability Scores by Racial Type:


-
As noted previously in the section pertaining to character abilities, the
non- and part-human races must meet certain minimum ability scores, and
some races have lower maximum possible scores as well. In order for your
character to be of one of these races, these minimums and maximums
must be met. The minimum scores must have been generated in the initial
abilities rolls, or if bonuses are given for the race, then the minimums must
be met considering such bonuses. Maximums applicable are easily met,
for the ability score is simply lowered to conform to the maximum.
The table below shows these minimum and maximum figures at a glance.

CHARACTER RACE TABLE III: ABILITY SCORE MINIMUMS & MAXIMUMS
Character
Ability Scores		 Dwarven M Dwarven F Elven M Elven F Gnome M Gnome F Half-Elven M Half-Elven F Halfling M Halfling F Half-Orc M Half-Orc F
STRENGTH*
    Min. 8 8 3 3 6 6 3 3 6 6 6 6
    Max. 18 17 18 16 18 15 18 17 17 14 18 18
INTELLIGENCE
    Min. 3 3 8 8 7 7 4 4 6 6 3 3
    Max. 18 18 18 18 18 18 18 18 18 18 17 17
WISDOM
    Min. 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3
    Max. 18 18 18 18 18 18 18 18 17 17 14 14
DEXTERITY
    Min. 3 3 7 7 3 3 6 6 8 8 3 3
    Max. 17 17 19 19 18 18 18 18 19 19 17 17
CONSTITUTION
    Min. 12 12 6 6 8 8 6 6 10 10 13 13
    Max. 19 19 18 18 18 18 18 18 18 18 19 19
CHARISMA
    Min. 3 3 8 8 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3
    Max. 16 16 18 18 18 18 18 18 18 18 12 12

* As noted previously, fighters of all races might be entitled to an exceptional strength bonus, see CHARACTER ABILITIES, Strength.

Notes Regarding Character Race Table III:

Minimum Scores indicate the lowest possible roll for consideration of a
character to be of the racial type indicated. Scores below the minimum
indicated are not allowable, so any character with less than the minimum
shown can not be of the appropriate race.

Maximum Scores include racial penalties and bonuses; thus, some races
can exceed the 18 total possible in the initial generation of abilities with
three six-sided dice. Penalties and bonuses for race are taken before
adjusting for maximum score.

The Slash (/) separates the minimums and maximums possible for males,
shown first, and females, shown after the slash, thus: males/females,
minimum and maximum as applicable. A male dwarf needs a minimum
strength of 8, as does a female of that race; a male dwarf can have a
maximum strength of 18, but a female dwarf can have a maximum
strength of 17; this reads as 8/8, 18/17.

The limitations given for races on the Ability Score Table are intended to
apply to the entire race, not just player characters. Therefore, several in-
consistencies between the maximum scores and the player character
racial adjustments are not mistakes. For example, although player
character elves have a -1 on their constitution, the racial maximum for
constitution of elves is 18. This is because, as explained in the Dungeon <ou est?>
Master’s Guide, exceptional non-player elves may have a constitution of
18. Likewise, although it is impossible for a player character halfling to roll
the maximum 19 constitution, a non-player halfling could, due to the
bonus received on constitution for NPC halflings in the DMG.
 

Question: A player in our campaign is a dwarf Fighter
with a Constitution of 7. When she got the PH,
she discovered that such a thing is illegal. Should the DM
simply treat this as an abnormal character, or is there
another way to solve the problem?

Answer: There are two main alternatives. One is to let her remain
as she is, but instead of saving as a dwarf with the automatic bonuses,
she should save as a human. Or, her Constitution score could be
altered (by raising it to the legal minimum of 12 for dwarves) so that
she would conform to the rules in the PH. Specific
solutions to problems like this should always be handled by the DM,
since he/she knows the campaign better than anyone else and is best
able to determine which alternatives would fit best into the game.
 

Question: May a character’s ability be increased beyond
maximum racial abilities (Players Handbook, page 15) by
magical means (i.e. Manual of Quickness of Action, Wish,
etc.)?

Answer: Using the interpretation from page 11 of the Dungeon
Masters Guide, it is perfectly acceptable to raise scores above maxi-
mum racial limits when using magic. If such were not the case, spells
like the second-level Magic-User spell Strength would be useless. — J.
Ward, W. Niebling

SA: Note that the limits on Table III, above, do NOT apply to NPCs.

Bargle the Infamous wrote:
Hi Gary,

I have a question about minimum scores and racial penalties in AD&D.

When generating a character, may I assign a roll to an ability when a racial penalty for that ability would reduce the score below 3? If so, what is the outcome (3 or the lower value)?

I guess this is a question of whether or not 3 behaves the same as higher racial minimums -- with a racial minimum of 6, a character with a -1 penalty would need to roll a 7 or better in that ability, so would a minimum of 3 with the same penalty require a roll of 4 or better?

I've asked in the First Edition AD&D forum, but there seem to be multiple interpretations 

Thanks
 


Easy 

The minumum is just that. If any penalty reduces the character below the required minimum, another race must be selected...or a new set of character stats generated... 

Cheerio,
Gary
 


As for A/D&D game questions, I would as soon let WotC answer them, as they own the property.

Minimums are based on adjusted dice scores, so is a PC wishes to be a particular class and there is a racial penalty of -1,
that is deducted from the applicable attribute before the final totals and chatacter class are determined.

Cheerio,
Gary
 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barak
Heh Mr Gygax, I'm glad to see that, on the whole, your view on most of the "complaints" about D&D or even FRPGs in general reflect mine. I fondly remember answering a rather long tirade about the fact that nowadays female characters had basically the same STR as male characters, including lenghty references to biological and sociological surveys with the simple "Ok, but you're fine with fireballs?", and I'm glad to see you would basically have answered in kind. Realism in fantasy can only go so far, eh?


Howdy Barak!

Just so.
The only limit I placed on female PCS was no Str above 18.
In actual history female participation in what would be considered adventuring was virtually nil.
i am always amused when history programs on the tube attempt Political Corectness by featuring the only examples of female duelists, pirates, warriors, etc.
They represent less than one percent of the whole being considered, and featuring one-armed men in the same roles would be at least as meaningful historically.
Frankly, not only did society generally prevent such participation, but I believe most women were generally not the least interested in engaging in such dangerous and questionable activities.

That said, I never enforced the rule in my own game, for the milieu is fantasy, and given that, why have a physical power barrier when there are no others?
If any player, male or female, wants to have a female character that is as strong as any male, there is no reason not to allow that.

Cheers,
Gary

CHARACTER RACE DESCRIPTIONS

All of the non-human or part-human races closely resemble humans in
many aspects. It is assumed that similarities are sufficiently apparent so as
to warrant no further comment, and only special racial characteristics
which are dissimilar to humans will be dealt with. Characters differ slightly
within their respective races as a whole.
 
Dwarves Elves - Gnomes Halflings
Half-Orcs - - - Humans

RACIAL PREFERENCES TABLE


-
P: P indicates that the race is generally preferred, and dealings with
the members of the race will be reflected accordingly.

G: G indicates that considerable goodwill exists towards the race.

T: T indicates tha the race is viewed with tolerance, and
generally accepted, if not loved.
 

N: N shows that the race is thought of neutrally, although some suspicion will be evident.

A: A means that the races is greeted with antipathy.

H: A strong hatred for the race in question.


 
 
Race DG DH DM ED EG EH EV EWi EWd GD GS 1/2E HH HS HT 1/2O H
DWARF - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
   Gray (DG) P A A G H H H H H A A N N T N N N
    Hill (DH)  A P G H A A A A A N G N T G G H N
    Mountain (DM) A G P H A A A A A T T N T G T H N
ELF - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    Dark (ED) G A A P H H A H H H A A A A A T N
    Gray (EG) A A A H P G A T G N T G T T G A N
    High (EH) A A A H P G A N G T T G T T G A N
    Valley (EV) A A A A N N P N N G G T N N T A A
    Wild (EW) A A A H N N A P N A A A A A N A A
    Wood (EWd) A A A H G G A N P N N G T T G A N
GNOME - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    Deep (GD) A N T H N N T N N P G N T T T A N
        Surface (GS) A G G A T T G N N G P T G G G H N
HALF-ELF* (1/2E) N N N A G G G A G N T P N N T A T
    Dark descent T N N G A A N A A A N ** A A A T N
HALFLING - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    Hairfoot (HH) N T T A T T N N T N T N P P P N T
    Stout (HS) T G G A T T N N T T T N P P P N N
    Tallfellow (HT) N T T N G G T T G N T G P P P N N
HALF-ORC (1/2O) N H H N A A A A A A H A N N A P T
HUMAN (H) N N N N N N N N N N N T N N N N P

* With regard to the reactions of races other than elves,
half-elves are considered as a specific racial type.
However, elves will react to half-elves as if the half-elf were either a half-elf or a
full-blooded elf of the same racial type as the half-elf's non-human ancestor,
whichever is the more negative reaction.

** Preference for half-elves of dark descent, hatred for all other half-elves.

N:
<remember to apply the -1 to -8% modifier for suspicion: DMG.100/102>


THE FORUM

In issues #95 and #96 of DRAGON Magazine,
Gary Gygax has provided articles which extend
the classes and experience levels available to the
demi-human PC races in the AD&D game. Mr.
Gygax states that he does not dislike the nonhuman
races, but that he wishes AD&D worlds to
be human-dominated, and the advancement
limits and racial class restrictions are the means
for achieving this.

Without arguing with this goal, I?d like to
suggest an alternative rule that provides the same
results. In the AD&D rules, demi-humans possess
several inborn advantages over equivalent characters
of human stock; e.g., all demi-humans have
infravision, a very useful ability when scouting or
hiding in a dark place. But when a demi-human
PC reaches the maximum level for his class, all
advancement stops for him, while human PCs
continue to advance. The result is that at the
lower levels, demi-humans have advantages over
their human comrades, while at higher levels
humans dominate the play. If the campaign
remains at the lower levels, players are encouraged
by these advantages to create non-human
characters; if and when the campaign moves into
higher levels, old favorite non-human characters
suddenly can?t keep up with their human counterparts.
This is not so much game balance as two
different imbalances which, while they may
cancel each other out in the long run, do not
produce a constantly balanced long-running
campaign.

The alternative is this: Instead of limiting the
advancement of non-human characters, impose a
constant experience-point penalty (as a percentage)
which only slows their advancement, but
does so at all levels.

How much of a penalty to earned experience
should depend on the race (as they have different
advantages) and may be adjusted by the DM for
a campaign (if some racial advantage has little
use in your milieu, the penalty can be reduced).
All non-human races listed below share the
advantages of infravision and many additional
languages, plus:

Dwarves gain some bonuses against spell and
poison attacks, and have the ability to detect
slopes, pit traps, shifting walls, and depth underground.
They also gain combat advantages
against certain creatures. For these advantages, I
penalize them -15% to earned experience.

Elves are nearly immune to sleep and charm
spells (as well as to the paralyzing touch of
ghouls), have bonuses with swords and bows, and
a bonus to surprise. They detect secret doors
twice as easily. (The rules also provide that they
cannot be raised or resurrected, which may or
may not be a factor in a campaign, but in any
event is too harsh a counterbalancing disadvantage
for my taste.) For these many advantages, I
penalize them -25% to earned experience. (No, I
don?t hate elves; but in my campaign these elven
racial advantages have made elves far too Popular
as PCs, and so it is necessary to use a heavy hand
to balance the scales.)

Gnomes have racial advantages similar to
dwarves, and so share the -15% penalty.

Halflings share with dwarves and gnomes
special resistance to magic and poison, and
mining skills such as detecting slopes. They also
have an advantage to surprise, and for all of this I
penalize them -15%.

Half-elves have some resistance to sleep and
charm spells, plus advantages in locating secret
doors. I penalize them -15%.

Half-orcs have no special racial abilities (except
the infravision and languages already mentioned).
I penalize them -10% to earned experience.

These penalties allow a DM to remove all
advancement limits for demi-humans, secure in
the knowledge that the human PCs will advance
more quickly in compensation for their lack of
special racial abilities. (Even the 25% penalty I
assess against elves is modest when you consider
that the experience points necessary for advancement
increase geometrically, so even elves tend to
lag only one level behind the human PCs.) Individual
DMs should adjust the penalties according
to how useful these special racial abilities are in
his or her campaign. These steps insure that a
player can select a race based on the type of
character he or she really wishes to play, and not
based on some consideration of game advantage.

Bruce Carlson
Phoenix, Ariz.
Dragon #99

*    *    *    *

I am writing in response to Bruce Carlson's
letter in issue #99 of DRAGON Magazine. Like
Bruce, I disagree with Gary Gygax's system for
limiting the advancement of non-human races
and believe in slowing their advancement at all
levels. I disagree with the reasoning behind
Bruce's ideas, however.

The imbalance that would result if nonhumans
advanced at the same rate as humans is
not due to the advantages they possess, as Bruce
proposes, but due to their great life spans. Speaking
generally, a human character at any level is
no weaker than a non-human of the same class
and level.

The imbalance is created when, say, 90 years of
game time have passed. The human fighter who
has achieved 7th level suddenly drops dead of
natural causes, but his buddy, an elven fighter
who has also achieved 7th level, is just nearing
the prime of his life and is looking forward to
many more years of adventuring and levelgaining.
If this were how the game was set up,
then the non-humans would be in control of the
world.

Gary Gygax's answer to the problem is simple:
stop the advancement of non-humans at a certain
level. As far as I can see, there is no justification
for this whatsoever. Bruce's system offers a more
plausible solution: slow advancement at all levels.
I disagree with his justification for this, however.
He proposes that because non-humans have
certain "inborn advantages," they should get less
experience, possibly because they were not as
"challenged" as a human might have been. This
is not the case, however, as non-humans also have
a number of inborn disadvantages.

The reasoning we are looking for can be found
in Roger Moore's "Point of View" articles. If
one generalization stood out, it was that the
longer-lived races have the philosophy of ?we
have plenty of time to get it done,? and the
shorter-lived races have the outlook of ?let?s
hurry up and get it done so we can move on.?
Because humans are always striving for more,
they will get more experience, in general terms
than the longer-lived races who are not trying to
do so much in so little time.
 
The dwarven point of view The elven point of view The gnomish point of view The half-elven point of view The half-orc point of view
The hobbit point of view - Best of Dragon, Vol. III - Dragon

The experience received, therefore, should
correspond to the average lifespan of a member of
a race. Assuming that the current experience
point system is based on humans, then an elf
would lose about 90% of his experience if no
modifications were made. This is obviously
unfair. I would lower this figure substantially for
several reasons: (1) The experience points necessary
for advancement do increase geometrically,
so it is harder to gain the upper levels; (2) the
average lifespan of an adventurer is lower than
that of an "ordinary" member of a race; and (3)
one campaign is not likely to cover a great number
of game years.

So, keeping the ratio of XP penalty to each
race the same, but lowering the overall amount
for the above reasons, I propose the following
reductions: elves -30%, gnomes -28, dwarves
25%, half-elves -22, and halflings -13%. These
figures can be rounded off to the nearest multiple
of five if the reader wishes. The half-orc is a
different case. The average lifespan is shorter
than that of a human, so it would seem logical to
add to their experience. However, because this
race is "rude, crude, and generally obnoxious,"
they do not tend to advance any faster than
humans. For this reason and for simplicity's sake,
I would say that they get the same experience as
humans. The DM can make his own decision
here.

Mike Dombrowski
Fairport, N.Y.
Dragon #101

*    *    *    *



elementalawe wrote:
ADandD 1st edit. DM Gary Gygax

I don't have a DM, so I want you to be my DM temporarily.
If I would be playing in your Greyhawk campaign and the time is 1977 to 1988, would you allow me to play a half-dwarf and half-human?
If so, which human of Greyhawk-Oerth mixes with which dwarf subrace?
 


That's easy! There were no half-dwarves in my campaign, although I suppose if pressed I'd allow a dwarf-orc mix... (J/K)

Cheers,
Gary
 

elementalawe wrote:
Game Designer and author Gary

As a DM, you don't allow a half-dwarf and half-human in your campaign. Your campaign is GreyHawk because you created it, so does that mean some other DM who is using GreyHawk can allow a half-dwarf and half-human as a PC race? Is a DM other than you, in accordance with the ADandD 1st edit. PHB or DMG, allowed to create a half-dwarf and half-human for any campaign?


Well...

In the PHB and the DMG I authored, there isn't a rule that established any half-anything other than a half-elf and a half-orc.
Of course any DM can make up any rules for any campaign he runs, including Greyhawk, and if that includes a halfling-ogre character, it's none of my business.

Gary


Rhuvein wrote:
Hello Gary. I haven't seen this asked before, but forgive me if you've answered this elsewhere.
Which race is the oldest, among the gnomes, elves and dwarves?
Thanks! :D
 


Actually, no one has ever asked me that question;)
As far as I am concerned, the racial age is the same for the lot of demi-humans.
Cheers,
Gary
 
 


DMPrata wrote:
Gary, no doubt this has been asked of you before, but I haven't been able to find a "definitive" answer. Did you intend for dwarven PC's (and other small demi-humans) to move slower than human PC's, or were the Monster Manual movement rates (6" for dwarves & gnomes, 9" for halflings) written to reflect units of armored troops as opposed to individuals? There seem to be two schools of thought on this one.


The rates of movement given indeed were for troop units, not individual PCs--not that a fully armored dwarf PC would move faster, or that a halflinf PC like-armored would move 9.
 

DMPrata wrote:

The player of the dwarven PC in my group is going to be very happy when I tell him he can now move at the same base rate as the humans :D (subject to armor and encumbrance, of course). In later editions of the game (grr :evil: ), dwarves were specifically given lower base movement rates, but I wasn't sure that that was actually your original intention. Clearly now it wasn't. Thanks once again Gary!


Be careful now...

An unencumbered human has a base movement rate of 12, I'd give the short-legged folk a base of 9.

Obmi the Dwarf, one of my favorite villians, relied on his boots of speed to escape human pursuers...which infuriated the players, of course.

Cheers,
Gary
 


Clangador wrote:
Gary,

I was looking over the 1e PHB yesterday and got to wondering.

Why are there demihuman level limits?

Just curious.
 


Heh...

I looked ahead, and the other responses are true in part.
I definately assumed a fantasy world dominated by humans.
A good reason for this is that creating a non-human culture and societies based on it is far more than I care to attempt for a game.

If demi-humans had no limits to their potential, then as depicted, they would surely rise to dominate the world...and invention of their cultures and societies would be an absolute necessity.

Game balance is also a factor.
Demi-humans have advantages over humans, so their maximum power needs limitation for the reason noted above.

Cheers,
Gary
 


Elfdart,

In essence I concur with your handling the matter of half-orcs...and possibly applying it to half-elves as well;)

A likely template for general social reaction to such individuals can be found in the social history of the USA around 1850. A good deal of prejudicial and ethnocentric behavior there.

Cheers,
Gary
 


As for demi-humans, they were always played extensively from day one.
All sorts of dwarf, elf, and hobbit (later halfling) PCS--later on gnome and half-orc too.
Fact is I once had a (short-lived) half-orc cleric-assassin PC 
Seems his adventure mates weren't sorry to see him offed.

I still have the dwarf character, Zigbie, who is topped off in level-- and that's with all the OAD&D (with UA) additions to what level can be attained--but now and then shows up in play.

All the players opting to play demi-human PCs knew the limitations, accepted them, and had great fun playing the role chosen.
After all, the game doesn't have to be about power, eh?

In my opinion, in a world setting where humans are dominant, there is logic for setting level limits on non-human PCs.
That's a whole other discussion though 

Cheerio,
Gary
 


Quote:
Originally posted by MerricB
Gary, if you find this un-stickyfied thread again (arrggghh!!!), could you clear up one thing that bothers me from the AD&D rules?

Halflings: -1 Str, +1 Dex.

In the "min/max" ability score table, they've got a maximum Dex of 18, and a maximum Con of 19. I've always wondered about whether or not that was a typo, or if they once got a +1 Con or whatever. 

Though I've always ruled that its a typo (halflings may have a 19 Dex), it is one of those things that makes me wonder... 

Cheers & Best Wishes!


Wow! I've never had this called to my attention before.
That's astonishing, because so many sharp eyes have looked over the work, and errors were pointed out with alactrity 

It is clearly a gaff. The entry should be 19 Dex, of course, not 19 Con.

Gary
 


Quote:
Originally posted by MerricB
G'day, Gary!

I was just wondering - how popular were demihumans in your AD&D games? Did they often reach the level limits? Did they go above them due to one method or another?

Cheers!
 


Hi Merric 

About half of the players had demi-human PCs, and that's when I saw the need to allow multi-classing more broadly, and not limit the thief level.
Also some of the sub-types were created and the level limits bumped up to accommodate those who insisted on playing non-human races in a human-dominated game and world setting. Actually, I allways allowed a Wish spell to bump up a level too...

It is worth noting, that most players never got PCs above around 12th level, so even an elf fighter/m-u of 5/8 was a viable member of a typical party.

Cheers,
Gary
 
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Geoffrey
 

In my games, I considered banshees the spirits of human women who died in childbirth. Also, I considered that demi-humans were all of inherently good alignment. I didn't have any evil or neutral dwarves, elves, gnomes, or halflings in my world. (This, of course, doesn't include duergar, drow, or deep gnomes.) Just as, for example, there were no six-foot tall halflings (not even as "exceptions"), there were no non-lawful good ones either.
 


Geoffrey, I was not so strict in my management of demi-humans. While most were basicaly of G alignment as groups, there were plenty of TN elves, and individuals within a group could vary through the whole spectrum. Basically E demi-humans had the same exceptions, although most PCs were hesitant to believe them, heh-heh.

Never did have a halfling or any other sort of racially gigantic proportions. About 25% variation in height was the max.

Cheers,
Gary
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by redwing00
Gary- I'm not quite sure if this question has been asked before as it seems to be a fairly simple one, but how did you pick the races for D&D? In 1ed only dwarves, elves, "hobbits", and humans were PC races. I'm guessing this was drawn from LotR. But in 2ed gnomes came in. What source did you draw these creatures from.
 


Howdy!

Fact is that dwarves and elves came from mythology and folklore, the hobbit from JRRT's work. That mix was selected to attract readers of the "Rings Trilogy," of course. Later on I added gnomes to D&D to broaden the choices for non-human PCs, as I did in AD&D. This was done because a number of players, myself included, were tired of having so many dwarves, elves, and halflings in the group of adventurers. In my campaign a party of 12 would have three front rank halflings, a second rank of dwarves, elves in the third rank, and the fourth rank the humans--mainly magic-users and clerics.

Cheers,
Gary
 

<virel>
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virel
I would like to ask about your views on the female strenght limits in OAD&D.

After playing for a while with them, as DM I dropped the limits in my campaign when a female player rolled 18/95 strength for her female fighter. One half of my long time OAD&D gaming group is female, so I let my orginal ruling from way back in 1980 still stand. The character gender ends up being about 50/50 most of the time. It's never been a balance issue, however it gives up a little realism in favor of flexibility for players.

Later one of the players and I did a little research (mid 1980's) on female strength based on the Olympic/world records etc. 18/63 seemed a realistic limit. Last year I revised the topic and based on the new records etc 18/76 seemed like a new realistic limit.

When DMing OAD&D these days, at character generation do you keep the orginal limits for females or have they been changed etc?


I agree that human males can develop greater upper body strength than human females etc.
Your alternation doesn't disturb me in the least. Why I decided on realism in regards to male/female strength is beyond me. After all in a fantasy game that doesn't make a great deal of sense. I suppose I just wasn't thinking the matter through in regards the genre. I do not have such differentiations in the Lejendary Adventure game.

As for the actual difference between males and females, I am quite comfortable with the limits I placed in the book...unless steroids are taken into account. Males have some 30% more muscle mass, IIRR, and they are taller and heavier than females. All of that matters in combat.

Cheerio,
Gary

<link to the Female Str. posts from STR>
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elfdart
I had a house rule:

Only humans, gnomes, half-elves, wood elves and half-Euroz (Greyhawk!) were allowed, and only one PC in four was allowed to be demi or semi-human. I got sick of all-elf parties and the stereotypical ways demi-humans (elves, halflings, dwarves) were played. Edmund Wilson was right about LOTR showing "a poverty of invention", and watching players ape that poverty of invention was annoying.

We got back to the humanocentric gaming of the old days. The only thing missing was art by DAT!


No quibbles about that from me <wink>

Someone of the female gender once asked why I wrote from the male perspective. Well duh!

In similar vein, I don't know any actaul hobbits, gnomes, elves, dwarfs, or half-breeds of those races, so whatever a human might write about them is going to be from a human standpoint thinly guised, or perhaps fairly well so, as a non-human perspective <confused>

As for DAT, we have tried our best to get Tramp back doing artwork, alas to no avail <frown>

Cheers,
Gary
 


Quote:
Originally Posted by zakon
Also, why did you cap the levels on every race except human?


Your statement regarding level limits is not wholly correct.
There is usually no level limit on non-human thief class characters.
As the fantasy worlds for RPGs are ruled by humans, not other races, of course humans must be superior.
Campaign worlds are humanocentric because all GMs are human, of course, and actually developing a milieu in which some other race was predominant is a poser, a creative task I would not care to undertake, as it would necessarily take decades, if it could be properly depicted at all, IMO.

Cheers,
Gary


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoffrey
I thoroughly agree. Non-humans should not be absurd "funny-looking humans with cool powers".


Tell me, what else are virtually all the humanoid races in fantasy and SF if not just that?...although they may not have special powers, just accentuated human characterists and senses.

As a matter of fact I am guilty of creating such species myself, but there is a reason, I am a human and think accordingly, and as I think I create.
when a young female editor for a large publishing house once querried me in accusitory tone, "Why do you always write from the masculine perspective?!"

"Madam, I happen to be a male."


Gary


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vargo
I thought I'd back up Gary with something a science fiction author (David Brin) once said when asked about creating memorable alien species - he basically said that he takes one trait (such as being a trickster, or being stubborn, or scheming, or something like that) and turns the dial up to eleven on that trait. He does have some pretty unusual creatures in his universe...

Nothing to ask Gary today, other than a sincere hope that your health is good!


Yuppers!

It would be possible to create a completely different non-human species, but because the one doing so is human, some of that will surely show up in the supposedly exotic species, its history, cultures, and societies...not to mention technology. The time and effort required to devise such a thing would surely be inordinate, for the more successful the result the less the audience will be able to relate to it 

And yes thanks! I am feeling pretty well and right chipper...only a tad overworked now in semi-retirement 

Cheerio,
Gary


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoffrey
Gary, in your LA and A/D&D games, you include demi-humans right alongside humans as PCs.
In your Dangerous Journeys: Mythus game, however, you relegated demi-human PCs to explicitly optional status, and gave them only 2 pages versus 17 pages of descriptions for human PCs.

Why the de-emphasis on demi-human PCs in Mythus as opposed to your other FRPGs?


Frankly, I find human characters a lot more interesting than most non-human ones.
In most cases they are played as stereotypes...badly played thus at that,


 


Heh...

As a mater of fact, the only half-anything characters in my campaign were the human and either elf and orc ones.
As I mentioned jokingly, would a half-halfling be a quartling?

While hafbreed characters can make for some interesting role-playing, the desire for them is generally instigated by some player seeking to gain an advantage through adding and playing such a mixed race character.

Cheers,
Gary

Comments

'Hail To The King'
"Tomorrow is Saturday and Sunday comes afterwor-ords."
Xp for the man 24 thus far